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The Trombone Retreat
The Trombone Retreat
Peter Moore Live at the British Trombone Festival!
Nick and Sebastian visit jolly England to visit the British Trombone Festival. While there they had a chance to sit down with Peter Moore, the prodigious trombonist whose career drew great attention from the age of only 12 years old! From his beginnings in brass bands to his breakthrough on the BBC Young Musician stage, Peter's story is one of talent, resilience, and a relentless pursuit of musical excellence. We traverse through his early days, the pressures of performing on television, and his iconic fashion choices that marked his early performances. With witty exchanges about American and British terminology sprinkled throughout, this episode captures the essence of Peter’s vibrant personality and the passion he holds for his craft.
Our discussion then moves to the intricacies of Peter's career, including his transformative experience with the London Symphony Orchestra. He candidly shares the emotional rollercoaster of balancing professional commitments with personal growth, and the unforeseen opportunities that shaped his path. We explore the challenges of transitioning from an orchestral role to the uncertainties of a solo career, underscoring the mental strength required to chase new ambitions. Peter’s reflections offer profound insights into the world of professional musicianship, highlighting both the exhilaration and the solitude that come with the territory.
We wrap up with a forward-looking perspective on Peter's upcoming projects, including new works, albums, and a tour across the United States. This episode is a joyride through the world of trombone performance, exploring the art of musical expression and the global community that defines it. With anecdotes, advice, and a shared love for the trombone, it’s a celebration of music, passion, and the shared quest for artistic communication. Whether you’re a seasoned trombone enthusiast or new to the brass scene, this conversation with Peter Moore is sure to resonate and inspire.
Thank you to the leadership of the British Trombone Society and Festival and the Royal Birmingham Conservatoire for inviting us with special thanks going to Simon Minshall, Rupert Whitehead and Edward Jones!
Also introducing special features with Patreon: www.patreon.com/tromboneretreat
Learn more about the Trombone Retreat and upcoming festival here: linktr.ee/tromboneretreat
Hosted by Sebastian Vera - @js.vera (insta) and Nick Schwartz - @basstrombone444 (insta)
Produced and edited by Sebastian Vera
Music: Firehorse: Mvt 1 - Trot by Steven Verhelst performed live by Brian Santero, Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz
Thank you to our season sponsor Houghton Horns: www.houghtonhorns.com
Also introducing special features with Patreon: www.patreon.com/tromboneretreat
Learn more about the Trombone Retreat and upcoming festival here: linktr.ee/tromboneretreat
Hosted by Sebastian Vera - @js.vera (insta) and Nick Schwartz - @basstrombone444 (insta)
Produced and edited by Sebastian Vera
Music: Firehorse: Mvt 1 - Trot by Steven Verhelst performed live by Brian Santero, Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz
Thank you to our season sponsor Houghton Horns: www.houghtonhorns.com
Support the show
All right. So hi, you guys can hear me, all right. Oh, wow thanks, we'll just pretend we're walking out right now. So, welcome to the Trombone Retreat podcast of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat. We have to say that at the beginning of every episode. So we're doing a live podcast recording here. So feel free to applaud whatever and enjoy yourself. Feel free to throw things at, nick, that's.
Speaker 2:Nick, that's.
Speaker 1:Nick, no big deal. But if you're not aware of who we are, nick and I started a festival called the Third Coast Tramone Retreat about 12 years ago now, 2014. Wow, see, that's what Nick's here for. He remembers things. It's a week-long seminar in a beautiful area of Michigan, right on the coast of Lake Michigan white sand beaches, dense forests, deer running around and it's this little oasis where we have a week-long seminar for aspiring trombonists and we keep the enrollment small and really focused. And from that we just had a lot of amazing conversations with all of our guest artists that have come in and all of our people we've known, and so after a few years, we decided to start a podcast.
Speaker 1:Nick lives in New York. He plays bass for Moe in the New York City Ballet. I live in Pittsburgh, which is about a six-hour drive away, so we often record these online and sometimes we're interviewing someone in Malaysia and a 12 hour time difference and you know you just make it work. But we've had about 50 interviews now at least, and you can find our podcasts anywhere that you download your podcast. Just look for Trombone Retreat and I think that covers kind of who we are.
Speaker 4:That's a good elevator pitch.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, for no money down. I don't know if they say that here there's gonna be a bunch of stuff. We say today that I don't know. If you guys know that, we say so, we'll see. So we are supported by Houghton Horns, which is an amazing music company located in Texas. I have a signature mouthpiece that just came out with them that I have upstairs, so please come visit and try it out. Nick is supported by Long Island Brass and has his signature bass drum and mouthpiece. Come visit. We also have stickers. Come get a sticker. But yeah, so we were thrilled to be invited to come here. Originally, we were thinking about doing it online, but we thought, hey, that'd be really cool if we could figure out how to do this in person. Were thinking about doing online, but we thought, hey, that'd be really cool if we could figure out how to do this in person, and we thought it'd be really neat to to interview the guy to our right my left to your.
Speaker 1:Oh good, good, we sorted that out and we would. We thought we were going to have him walk out with all this pomp and circumstance, but, uh, I think this is way better and it's nice that we're in a jazz club so we can talk like this, our next tune. I think we first came across this guy on you'd have to tell me, nick, but the viral videos that went around during the BBC Young Musician competitions.
Speaker 4:Oh, I can't remember what year that was. I think you know 2008. 2008, okay, you were 12?.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:Wow, so we'll get into that. But I'm like who's this young trombone player on my TV? People actually want to watch trombone players. That's a thing that's awesome. So that was really exciting. So, longest intro ever. Please welcome Mr Peter Moore.
Speaker 2:Thanks, guys, great to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Thanks for inviting me. You have some fans in the audience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, god, yeah, hundreds of them Might be, thousands.
Speaker 4:I can't see that far back so it's hard to really do a good head count we try to keep the groupies in the back.
Speaker 1:Like the security is pretty tough here and this jazz club it's hard to get into. So you've had, you've had a long day already. You, where'd you wake up today?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was. I work on the scottish borders. Today I had a recital in a little place called kelso, really beautiful part of the world, in a really nice church. So it was fun, but, yeah, a lot of driving and yeah, but nice to make it here for this and also be a part of this festival and kind of relax and enjoy it today, because there's loads of great stuff going on later and I'm not playing it till tomorrow.
Speaker 4:So support all the work that everybody here has done in organizing it and yeah already it's quite a successful event now I have a question a little bit off topic. Why is it the scottish borders, not the border?
Speaker 2:why are you asking me questions I can't answer?
Speaker 3:I don't know I mean, yeah, I'm not sure okay, but it's, it's very much a territory.
Speaker 2:I think scottish borders is a territory wait, I'm getting.
Speaker 4:I'm getting nods from the audience.
Speaker 2:It's not like a line, like a border, it's like a territory we know you see a sign say welcome to scotland and then it says no, it doesn't say welcome to scottish borders, not so, see I think nick's asking because we would.
Speaker 1:We would just call that a border, not borders. I wonder if that's related to why you guys call it maths and we just call it math. No, I still have never met anyone that can explain why. I guess you can make the argument.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of types of math you also call it zucchini that's what it's called, instead of court Corgette is a courgette right, okay, now we're just.
Speaker 1:That's a completely different eggplant instead of aubergine. See, I know this Aubergine yeah. Welcome back to the food podcast. Hey you know?
Speaker 4:okay, I have an American accent, you have a British accent. We're just going to have to move forward.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're British. Yeah, tell us about that. What's that?
Speaker 2:like. I'm a bit of a hybrid. I was born in Belfast and grew up in Manchester, and then, since the age of 18, I've lived in or around London.
Speaker 1:So is your accent like a blend of all those places. It depends who I'm talking to.
Speaker 2:So if I'm talking to people from Belfast, I will go Northern Irish quite quickly, and if I'm talking to people from Manchester, I'll go Manchester quite quickly as well.
Speaker 1:So since we're from America, are you going to start speaking in an American accent?
Speaker 2:I don't think so no as well. So since we're from America, are you gonna start speaking in it?
Speaker 1:I don't think so no, I need to spend a bit more time around you. I think that'll happen soon, all right, okay, so when did you, when did trombone kind of come into your life?
Speaker 2:really early on. I was very adamant that I would do it. I think my parents tried to steer me away from it because they're musicians themselves and they sort of thought why we wanted. We want to make him realize that there is something else possible. You can. You know, he doesn't just have to do what we do, because my brother and sister played as well. Brother still does, oh that's a noisy household yeah it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was at times, yeah, especially when we got my brother his drum kit. But yeah, it was noisy and and brass bands were very much the the thing and my parents were involved with them a little bit as well. So we used to go down to the the local park and see the local brass bands play and I said, what's that big slidey thing? I want to do that and that was it really love at first sight.
Speaker 2:Your parents were your musicians. Yeah, they were both french horn players. Yeah, they actually met, sat next to each other in an orchestra what's it, what's?
Speaker 1:oh, my god, what's up with the french horn couples? It's always french horn that you see, the, the, the couples happening is it yes, I've seen some trumpets you've seen some trombone couples. I don't know. I just feel like, of all the sections if you this is, this is my scientific, I did my dissertation on this the couples that have the most. The section that has the most couples is always French horn. So someone write in to our podcast and let us know why.
Speaker 2:That's unusual because they're normally the most kind of loner of the brass instruments as well Interesting.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Maybe that's because their job's so hard and they're stressed out all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's that kind of rule. You don't mess with a horn player, do you? You never mess with the first horn player because they've just got enough to worry about.
Speaker 1:That means Nick probably messes with them more, a little bit. So you would be hearing brass bands a lot. You were fascinated by it.
Speaker 2:Was it the.
Speaker 1:You just saw the trombone and you were kind of into it, or you're just kind of into the idea of being a musician no, I thought everybody was a musician.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize. I used to go into my primary school and ask people what they played I didn't, I didn't realize and until suddenly my mom said to me you've got to stop doing that. So, yeah, I realized pretty quickly, I think, but I thought everybody played an instrument.
Speaker 1:And how old do people typically start playing in this right here?
Speaker 2:I think it depends. I think in the days it totally depends. There's people that have started in their kind of mid-teens and gone on to be brilliant. There's people that started much earlier than that. I think probably it's maybe getting later these days due to maybe music services disappearing and junior bands disappearing, sadly. But I started when I was. I saw those five on the but I didn't start in the trombone. I started on a barrier tone because we couldn't get I'm sorry and then and then.
Speaker 2:I had an alto trombone when I was six Because we couldn't get.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, and then I had an alto trombone when I was six. So I'm way less impressed by you winning this big competition when you're 12 now, because I mean, you've been playing since like seven years, that's like cheating yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean do you know what? Actually it was that brass band stuff in the early years was absolutely brilliant, Because the development that I just had, like a rapid development, just all thanks to that, really just turning up and twice a week and reading all this music and you know, like learning how to read music very quickly, um, internalizing pitches, you know. So that, yeah, I definitely have a big part to that.
Speaker 4:I think it's one thing that generally is done well in this country is the early music education through the brass bands, because we don't have I mean, we have early music education but we don't have brass bands really not not in the scale that they have here, and I think that's really great for brass players it is good it's it's it's making, it's helping people to realize that there's still a lot of bands available because they're not really linked to schools or anything you know it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, they are brilliant. I think they're still well over 100 in this country wow, that's amazing um, it's fantastic the thing we talk about that a lot.
Speaker 1:It's just, you see, such a clear difference in a young person that you know, in a brass band, your challenge challenged, I mean endurance wise you're. You're challenged melodically, technically, way more so than you know an 11 year old who is joining a wind ensemble and probably just playing whole notes for quite a while until maybe you're older and you start playing different keys and stuff.
Speaker 2:Like you're challenged with the brass band from the beginning you are and you don't realize that actually the trombone is a lot harder to play fast or even or much harder to play slow, as well than many other instruments, because the brass band writing is just kind of the same across every instrument pretty much. You know the technical demands and then you go and sit in an orchestra and you think, oh, it's nowhere near as challenging as, but then there's challenging as, but then there's other things that are hard, like the sound and the blending and all that sort of stuff. So it's. Yeah, I think I remember being able to sort of play quite demanding stuff quite early, but then when I turned to a little bit more of the orchestral side of things, I realised there was a bit of a hole there in terms of that kind of style, you know. So there, in terms of that kind of style, you know. So yeah, it's just, it's interesting and everybody has.
Speaker 1:Everybody goes their own way. And yeah, so were you studying with your parents first, or?
Speaker 2:no, I went to my dad's junior band, but I didn't he never really sort of, I was never, you know, in a room with him doing a lesson or anything like that. So no, my first teacher was kind of in Manchester when we moved there, a guy called Andrew Berryman who was at the time principal trombone of the Hallé Orchestra in Manchester, and I started to take lessons from him when I was about eight or nine years old For the next four or five years. So yeah, he's my first teacher.
Speaker 1:Sounds like a great teacher to have at a young age.
Speaker 2:He's fantastic. I mean just, you know, everybody knows who he is in the business, he's a bit of a legend, but he, yeah, very, very infectious personality and very, very inspiring. And you sort of find yourself hanging on to his every word. You know, and he was very careful with me not to, I think I sort of said I want to play this and this and this and he's like nope, we're gonna, we're gonna wait, we're gonna. You know, he said he'd say your slurs weren't very good, so we're gonna this, we're just gonna do basics this week, you know. And then, and then we kind of what about this piece maybe, maybe in a few months time? So he was actually trying to get it off my face more than he was saying do this, this, do this, do this, this, you know?
Speaker 4:now I was grateful for that. Were you, were you challenged by like you know? You know, for a young person, for their teacher to say, oh, like we're just going to focus on fundamentals, we're going to do Arbenz or we're going to do Clark studies or whatever. It is something that's, you know, maybe not as fun, but it's obviously. It's like taking our vitamins you know it's good for us, but as a young age we would just want to do the fun stuff. Was that discouraging for you?
Speaker 2:or did you find that challenging? No, it wasn't discouraging at all, because I think the reason why he was saying it but it was because he knew that I was doing already quite a lot of playing outside of these lessons and a lot of demanding stuff. So he was anxious that I didn't push too hard too soon and made sure that I was kind of properly set up. So yeah, no I, it wasn't frustrating at all really you weren't.
Speaker 4:You weren't the type of person that needed to be told to practice no nobody ever said that yeah I was.
Speaker 2:I was playing. I was. I was never very good at sitting in a room and doing hours I do that more now than I ever have, to be honest but I never did that when I was growing up. I did my warm-up and then I just played.
Speaker 4:That was it.
Speaker 2:So I didn't really you know little technical things that I had to figure out. I sort of figured out as an adult, not as a kid. So motivation was not a problem no, I remember when I was about 15, 16, I had a little dip. So I know, sure I'm gonna do, you know, but that was that lasted about four or five months, but other than that, no, not motivation is not a problem, you know cool, so okay.
Speaker 1:So you started baritone when you were like five and then out. See that, I really I think that's really cool, starting young people on alto trombone. We've talked about that before. That's something you don't see where we come from as much, but it makes a lot of sense and it seems like a way you could really start someone, because typically where we are, people start like 10, 11, 12 and if with an alto trombone, you could probably start a lot sooner I think I'm not sure what the thinking was behind it.
Speaker 2:I think I understood the thinking behind the baritone because it's the same kind of blowing, same mouthpiece or something. I can't remember how this all happened, but I just remember it as it is, and I think the alto was just because I was just so small it wasn't. It wasn't like a, you know, it was tiny.
Speaker 4:So well, your parents play an alto instrument, so they wanted that in the family okay.
Speaker 1:So when did so? You were motivated, you had a great teacher, awesome. You're, you know, set up for success. You have supportive parents, all things we, we, we wish for. When did you start, you know? So you were 12. How to explain to especially our american listeners that don't know about this, this young music competition, how does it? What's the process like? Are there a lot? Are there prelims or recordings? Like, how does it go?
Speaker 2:well, I should say at this point, from the age of 10 11, I went to a music school in Manchester called Cheatsums, where it's a normal school except that about a third of the day is focused on music. So there's music ensembles and music training. You get your lessons and so I was there, and every time the kind of young musician competition comes round, you know like heads of department or whatever or teachers would put forward people. So that's kind of how it happened. And then, yeah, you just go and do a, an audition, you to go and do a first round in I think you have to be grade eight or something, and then you go and do a first round audition in regional and then just go from there, you know good experience.
Speaker 1:It was just all solos with piano or solos with piano yeah and they had brilliant pianists at chet's.
Speaker 2:So that's my cheatings in school. That was kind of the best thing about being there. They had four or five staff pianists that would just play with the students all the time and they were all fantastic, so yeah and at some point.
Speaker 1:So this is televised right, or is it just the?
Speaker 2:no, it's not it's not televised until. Are you really making me think that's going back a while?
Speaker 1:we can. We can watch the video together.
Speaker 2:That'd be fun it's only televised when it gets to the final instrumental categories, which is like the fourth round. They've changed it now. I don't I'm not exactly sure what they do now, but it used to be that you have one of every instrumental category in the final that they'd select from the television round before that, but they've changed it. Now I think they only have three the three players in the big final now.
Speaker 1:So but you, you'd been doing some work to get to that point where most people started seeing you yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I mean I sort of I didn't. It was all really easy at that age to be honest. There was no like I didn't get nervous. I didn't really go above and beyond to practice more, I just did what I normally did. I just did what I did and just did my warm-up and played my pieces and you know, teachers would suggest things. I didn't. There was no pressure of from anything, it was just I wanted to do it. You know pressure comes later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you look, yeah, once we have expectations right exactly yeah you looked very composed. I think that's what was so compelling about seeing you know, a 12 year old on tv, just like in playing at a very high level. You're just like, wow, he's just, he's just doing it and I think, what, what was it?
Speaker 2:it was a sang to a lot of and tamasi yeah, it was the whole of the tamasi and then the, and then the.
Speaker 1:The sang to a lot of the next day yeah I was definitely not playing the tamasi when I was 12. Yeah what? Were you doing when you were 12 nick.
Speaker 4:Well, I was wearing a lot of vests. I had a vest forward wardrobe at that point. They were pretty cool in 1992 or whatever that was.
Speaker 1:I think vests are like cool here, right, don't people wear vests a lot? These were not cool vests, you call them something different.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say you have to explain what a vest is over that, because we've got different. I'm sure we've got different ideas of vests sleeveless button down.
Speaker 1:You wear it like over a shirt yeah, like a jumper like a jumper I don't even know what a jump. Okay, welcome back to trombone fashion talk. I I actually was just reading this random article written about you when you were playing at lincoln center and the you probably saw this article. This the person was very he's very flowery language, but talking about the most electric blue suit they'd ever seen that you were wearing or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had to put that away for a bit because I was getting known for it, oh really, so I've changed it for a bit. Now it's in the wardrobe.
Speaker 1:You can't be typecast is that weird trombone player?
Speaker 4:you should just get different electric colors, you know, like electric yellow, electric red yeah, that could be your thing.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah, and then you don't have to sound good at the trombone, you can just be like a presence, just be that person yeah, I mean good to know that they've commented on something that wasn't the playing you know they. I mean the very compliment of your playing in that as well. Okay, so tell, what do you? I mean? I? I checked out that video recently. It's got like hundreds of thousands of views. How's it.
Speaker 2:I don't get any money from that either someone else put it on someone else?
Speaker 1:someone is the bbc?
Speaker 2:no, it's not the bb. Some random person, it wouldn't be the bbc someone ripped it off the tally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you should snag it and just put it on your channel, see what happens can you do that?
Speaker 2:I think so. They did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly um, no one listens to this podcast story, so what do you remember from the actual, like the finals.
Speaker 2:Loads of big cameras coming like that in your face.
Speaker 4:And that didn't make you nervous. No.
Speaker 2:I didn't get nervous at all for it. I find that quite hard to believe now, because I get nervous all the time now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I guess when you're young you feel invincible somehow.
Speaker 2:You just don't think there's no awareness. I think even if it had been fast forward, like I was, the other people in that final was 17, 18. So they already had like twice as much life experiences as I had. So they were probably feeling differently. Yeah, yeah, and just a chance to play with a, with a full orchestra, is was a thrill. You know something which I never take for granted you know, I'm lucky. I'm lucky to be able to do it still, but it's still a real buzz. You know to do that, I remember thinking, remember realizing how loud I had to play as well, because I could, I could play really quite loudly as a kid. But I remember getting there with the orchestra and thinking, oh wow, like I've got it up it even. You know, because even if the conductor is sort of managing everything, you've still got 70, 80 and the tamasi's quite cleverly scored. It's quite light, but still you've got to really project. You know, I remember thinking you played the whole thing, yeah, wow yeah, so okay.
Speaker 1:So how, let me like, how popular is that in you know pop culture, that event in england, so like, were people at your school like knowing you were on it, or is it more? Because it was a music school, yeah, so, oh, so you're pretty cool yeah yeah, I mean it was, it was a thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like a couple of days after that I was on, you know tv channels and radio stuff. I don't know, I'm not sure. It's still quite like that, I'm not sure, but it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a thing, it was in the papers and you know, so you start wearing sunglasses everywhere and like telling people not to make eye contact with you and have a writer with demands not so much.
Speaker 1:People seem forgot about it, apart from you guys, it's a trombone after all, you know ever since that day I'm like I must meet him, and interview him yeah, I was over half my life ago. Wow yeah well, I, I don't I gotta do the maths and figure out how long ago that was, thank you. Thank you for laughing at that, okay. So yeah, that was gonna be my next question like, how did your, your life, your musical life, change from that moment, or did it kind of just kind of went back?
Speaker 2:to school, did thing, and then there was a really nice little circuit of kind of concerts that I did Go out and do recitals, concertos, did a lot of travel, traveled abroad, went to Australia, did a big tour there, went all over Europe. So it was, yeah, it was busy and still kind of keeping up with school whilst you're doing it as well wasn't easy. And then you kind of realise that that all kind of stops and you're still only 14, 15. And then it's like what do I do now? Because somebody else is doing it. Then you know. So that was kind of, oh okay. And then I remember feeling a little bit lost. Then, you know, because it's like there was this idea that it would kind of you'd just be on this trajectory and you would just, you know, there would be a career waiting for you. But of course I was still so young, it didn't really work like that. So I was kind of I remember thinking, feeling like I was treading water for about a couple of years.
Speaker 4:You, know, I think a lot of musicians struggle with you know, we we chase kind of a high there is with performance, you know, and then afterwards, either after one performance or especially after like a long string of performances, maybe a tour like you're mentioning, there's a real crash afterwards and I think it really affects musicians a lot because totally we're kind of adrenaline junkies in a certain way.
Speaker 1:What goes up must come down, that's true especially being that young I mean, yeah, you're still figuring out who you are, you know and you're like I'm getting all this attention you're I mean, was the recital tour and all that performing afterwards, did you still have that same mindset of just enjoying it and not feeling nervous? Yeah, I loved playing.
Speaker 2:I just loved playing. Yeah, so yeah, still the same mindset.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Okay, so that happened and you started school shortly after that, like a few years after that. You guys call it university. I never went to university, you never went, no, so just straight into the job.
Speaker 4:That explains a lot yeah.
Speaker 2:But you have to remember, like where I already was, that was kind of like a music college kind of Right, you know, for younger kids.
Speaker 1:So was the London Symphony one of your first auditions. It was the first one, yeah. And a thousand.
Speaker 2:Well, I did one for the same job a couple of years before it, but I was too young to really do any work. They said no.
Speaker 4:I mean. So you took one, well, I mean, I guess, two auditions. So what was the official result of the first edition? You said that did you. Would you have won if you were older?
Speaker 2:I don't know. No, I'm not sure, but you know, it was like, it was very much like well, it's great to hear you, but come back when, when your feet touch the ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come back well you were.
Speaker 2:You were always tall, right like once you, once you yeah, yeah, I was about this height when I was 15 really no, yeah, wow yeah it's like a rail, yeah okay, you take this audition a couple years beforehand.
Speaker 4:So you were what? 16, 17, yeah, and this is the time they say come back when you're a little bit older, right? What? What drove you to take the audition? Did someone say, hey, you should audition for that also?
Speaker 2:yeah, philip cobb, who's principal trumpet there, he's okay not much older than me at the time.
Speaker 1:He got the job when he was 21 oh okay, that's a good person to recommend you yeah, yeah, and kind of already kind of a bit of a hero of mine, you know.
Speaker 2:So we had mutual friends and I, so so, yeah, why not? He's very much like a why not moment, you know was it something?
Speaker 1:was this? Because I was just interviewing Ian Bousfield and he was talking about how, at a young age, this was like in his mind. From when he was young, he was like I want to be principal trombone of the LSO someday. Was that kind of something that you were aspiring to, or was it not at all?
Speaker 2:yeah, not at all. I actually was. I I felt like I was a soloist, not an orchestral player. I didn't feel comfortable in orchestras really for a long time, so it wasn't. It was just very much something that came up at the time. Um, I remember chatting to a really close mentor of mine. He taught me piano and I just love this guy. He's called Jonathan Middleton Fantastic guy and he was telling me when an opportunity like this comes up, you've got to do it. He said, get on the train, do it.
Speaker 1:You do a lot of that in music. Right, it's just like, oh, that's what I've seen other people do, that's what I'm supposed to do. But you had the unique experience, especially as a trombonist. You had a unique experience where a lot of your first experiences were getting to be in front of the ensemble and getting to perform and seeing what that's like and seeing how it feels to be a soloist. So I guess you got the bug from an early age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah of I guess you got the bug from an early age. Yeah, yeah, totally, and I just kind of I wanted to play, you know. So if there was another opportunity to play, why would I not do that, you know? So, yeah, it just kind of happened. It happened by accident really, and and they offered me the job and I still, you know, I still kind of I didn't accept it straight away because I was, I was obviously over the moon, but I had a place at the, the academy down in london, you know, and I thought maybe should I do that?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure you know, and a few people told me not to take it. Actually, yeah, a few kind of people that I really trusted tonight. Why don't take? It because they thought I'd be in the middle of london, completely swallowed up by this organization, always working, not having the chance to grow up and find my feet. And do you know what? They made a good point. They made a very, very good point, but I still did it and I don't regret it.
Speaker 1:How long did you stay?
Speaker 2:10 years 10 years yeah including a sabbatical and COVID.
Speaker 1:What's that? Describe that to our audience? Yeah, Okay. So 10 years, that's a good chapter of life.
Speaker 2:It is. And actually, do you know what? The first four or five years were brilliant because it was an education for me, because I was co-principal trombone there. So I was kind of the lesser of the two principals and Dudley Bright that was. I was kind of the the lesser of the the two principals and Dudley Bright.
Speaker 2:That was just a kind of education for me in terms of orchestral trombone playing. It's just, yeah, I sat on stage and quite a number of times and was kind of blown away by that. And then you had Phil Cobb as well and so, yeah, the great thing about that orchestra is there was always something special going on around the orchestra. So if you weren't playing very much or you know you're in a piece that you're not really required for much, and there'd always be something special, you know, special oboe moment or cello moment, and that was quite inspiring. And I don't think I only realised recently how much of a profound effect that had on my musicianship. You know, I wouldn't say I became a better player after joining that orchestra, but I definitely became a better musician and and and had a lot more I concept of what I wanted to say and how I wanted things to sound and I have to just thank the orchestra for that.
Speaker 1:You know, well nick, he listens to the oboes. He's like a real musician I love music.
Speaker 2:I listen to music all the time. I love it, I'm obsessed with it. I, yeah, breathe music, yeah, so I just yeah, unashamedly so probably, that's probably good, as you're a musician, right yeah, but I'm always amazed at how many people don't actually right aren't, don't seem to be that interested in it. That's true especially in people actually working in the business. A lot of them don't seem to actually like music. Speaking for AOP on your podcast can you?
Speaker 1:name, some names Absolutely.
Speaker 4:That would be a whole, nother podcast episode to talk about that, because I agree with you 100%.
Speaker 1:Tell us everything you hated about the LSO. Top five things.
Speaker 1:But I mean, with any job it's like you know, from the outside perspective someone's like, oh my gosh, principal trombone, london symphony, and they, they can't imagine anything better and that's such such something we aspire to. But with any job and we talk about this a lot on the podcast there's no perfect situation and but we can take the good from everything and it sounds like you had an amazing experience and, yeah, like you said, you learned a lot on the job. I mean, there's so much, it's so hard to win a job and you have to play well enough. But just playing well enough is like the first step. Once you're on the job, right, you're learning how to be an adult and how to be a leader.
Speaker 2:Well, there's all that stuff as well, but also even just with the playing part, I felt like I had to learn how to play the trombone again. It was just a completely different way of playing that I've never done.
Speaker 2:Just, you know, like starting notes in the right way and you know, making sure that you're absolutely right there, ensemble wise, paying like super attention, super clear attention to intonation, things like this. Not that I never didn't do that before, but it's just another level of focus in terms of blending and ensemble playing and fitting into a machine. Because as a trombone player you don't. You might get in the orchestra, you might three, four, five percent of the time get a moment to really shine, and that's first trombone. You know. The rest of the time you're contributing something on a more, on a kind of deeper level. So it's learning how you fit into all that. And that was hard, because that was hard for me, because I'd sort of been doing the 3% and 4% stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, or you could be like a bass trombonist and think it's always your time to shine yeah, they, yeah, they do, they do do that, when is it not? Yeah everything is a solo. That's, yeah, that's a really interesting way to think about it. Did you have, if you looking back is was there a it's a hard question in 10 years, but like, was there a moment or a concert or a weekend that really stuck out as being really meaningful?
Speaker 2:yeah, I can give you, I think, two or three examples. One of them was playing the right of spring with valerie gogiev, very controversial man but absolute genius musician. And then anything with bernard heitzink, very fortunate to have worked with him before he passed away. We did some brilliant. We did a couple of brilliant tours with him Europe and Japan and then we did Marla 3 at the proms. Never heard of it, I didn't play the solo, but I was in the concert and really, really special, One of those that just really stuck with me, you know. And then we did. You know I had a great four or five years as the kind of the only principal player there, doing everything with Simon Rattle as well, and the repertoire was mad. I mean the diversity in his repertoire. We did everything, absolutely everything you know, from epic Mahler symphonies to light South American infused concerts to big band things, to everything you know, modern music, and generally it was all great you know, brilliant, brilliant experience.
Speaker 2:So you know, sometimes people say to me oh, was it not? Is it not a little bit tedious? You know, sometimes playing the trombone in an orchestra I was like I was never bored playing. I was never bored playing in those four or five years because we just did so much big stuff while you were always playing you know.
Speaker 4:So that was good, that was good. Yeah, now, what part of the job did you find the most rewarding and what did you find the most tedious?
Speaker 2:um. Tedious is sitting in rehearsals, where you're not playing true you get conductors big part of our job. You get conductors who are quite good at telling you when, when you needed, and you get conductors that aren't.
Speaker 4:That couldn't care less about that yeah, brahms four, and they get up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first movement okay, yeah, and, and then I found it frustrating, because I'd get more frustrated and then you'd have something really really quiet and pearly to play and you wouldn't be feeling good and then you wouldn't play very well and I think it's all of a sudden it becomes hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I learned a lot about mindset and kind of getting in the zone and focus and all that sort of stuff which is vital to what we do you know, and then the most rewarding part is just sitting there in the concerts and being kind of caught up in the middle of, or something like that, very lucky to have seen a lot of the world as well. And then you know this, the other things that it brought me as well. It gave me a profile that opened up other work, other work for me, so I was able to continue my, my solo work, which became more and more challenging to do both you know you said you were thankful to see the world.
Speaker 4:I mean, how did you find touring? Because I know the group tours a lot. I loved it for the most part yeah, but that gets old, sometimes too right.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, yeah, when it's like too much in a row yeah, it can be if you're in, like you know, the sixth stop in germany and it's like the sixth city in six days.
Speaker 1:Why don't you like Germany? Peter.
Speaker 2:Well, it just came to mind, I do like Germany for the record. But you're exhausted and you're queuing to get your hotel. The worst bit is queuing for the elevators to get up. Oh that's the worst.
Speaker 4:Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. I hate that.
Speaker 1:But then you go and do the gig and then find someone to have a beer and you're fine. Nick and I just spent the last couple of days in London and maybe the smallest elevators I've ever been around in some of these hotels we were like belly to belly. We don't have a lot of space in London.
Speaker 2:That's a problem with real estate.
Speaker 1:But I was going to ask you so, on the other side being an 18-year-old year old again a time in your life where you're still figuring out who you are making money, consistent money on your own, being professional first time in one of the greatest cities in the world. How do you balance being an 18 year old and having fun and living life with this big responsibility you had at work?
Speaker 2:it was a struggle. It was a struggle you had at work. It was the struggle. It was the struggle. Yeah, it was hard to. Yeah, it was hard to never to really kind of let loose and discover who you are. When you've got that responsibility, yeah, you can look after yourself and look after the way you play and you're figuring out how to get by in a new city. You know, I was living on my own as well. So, yeah, and you mentioned about the money. Yeah, the money was coming in, but I didn't see a lot of it. It just disappeared, you know. So I didn't really know what I was doing with that as well. So there's a lot of things to learn about, you know well, it could go either way.
Speaker 4:You said it was hard to let loose and find yourself, but another 18 year old could easily just go too far in that direction well, I'm sort of slightly holding back what I say okay, hey, nobody's listening to this.
Speaker 1:I promise you're in a safe place. No, I, I did, I had a good time that's good time but I did struggle to balance life because you're allowed to drink at 18 in england. So yeah, 16 is there. 18 or is?
Speaker 2:it yeah, but you can do what you like before that buddy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean yeah because I'm yeah, finding that balance of work hard, play hard. It's a thing, because at the same time, you have you know what could be considered a high-stress job and you need to be making sure you're enjoying life too and not stressing yourself out all the time. So I mean need to be making sure you're enjoying life too and not stressing yourself out all the time. So I mean hanging out with friends and having relationships outside of work is it's important did?
Speaker 2:were you just mainly hanging out with people in orchestra or no? I had a number of friends that were at uni at the time, you know, yeah, but then some people with the orchestra. Sometimes if you're on tour, you you're always with the orchestra, obviously, so you, you become quite close to some of them, you know, but it was mostly colleagues there. You know, yes, you spend so much time with these people and I do have a couple of friends in the orchestra still, you know, but mostly they're your colleagues and I found the lines to be quite blurred at times because there's this kind of expectation that you go on tour and you're best mates and you've got to do all these things together. But actually there's really no need to do that, there's no pressure, as long as you can kind of respect each other and so yeah, so that I found that quite tough figuring all that out, and I think it's a lot, it's something that still a lot of people in orchestras aren't able to quite work out, you know it's a weird schedule.
Speaker 1:I mean, sometimes our work day doesn't start till like eight o'clock at night sorry, 20, 20 and it'll end late where most people are getting off at you know five o'clock, getting normal night's sleep, and we're all amped up on this concert we just played and you want to go out and see friends. It's just like having that balance is always tough, but we don't have to talk about all your your crazy party times. Just kidding I. I am curious, though. Like so 10 years, at that 10 year point, had you been thinking about leaving for a while?
Speaker 2:yeah, I had. I've been, I've been considering it for a long time, probably was about to do it before we had that global pandemic, and then everything changed, as we know for everybody, and all of a sudden I went back a little bit early after my sabbatical. Sabbatical was supposed to be a year and I went back after nine months because they started doing the, the streamed concerts, and I know I was just grateful to be doing something because I had. I did actually have a lot of solo work lined up, which, of course, was all instantly cancelled. So I suddenly thought, well, I'm lucky that I didn't leave you, I still have this so. And then I went back and did another two, three years. How long was it? Yeah, two, three years, yeah. So it was very, very great and I was very much one of the lucky ones through all that time.
Speaker 1:You know but that's a big. That's a big. You know, trombone soloist is not. You know, we it's not the surest path, right? So that had to take some courage to be like okay, I have this consistent thing, but I'm gonna do this thing. I know what is in my heart is what I love doing it does take a lot of courage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it takes a lot of courage and resilience, mental strength, high self-esteem, confidence, all these things, because you know, there's some days where you just don't feel very good and not happy with how you played or anything. Oh, what am I doing? I'm such a fraud, you know. But that's just your inner critic talking. You remember why you're doing it and hopefully you have something to offer and you work hard and if there's something that you're really passionate about, you go for it. And certainly it was something that I knew that I didn't want to continue doing what I was doing. So, you know, I feel very, very lucky to have done it and I'm very grateful for the experiences, but at the same time, there's nothing. There was nothing left that I hadn't done there. I played everything, work with all the conductors, traveled the world, played in every concert hall, played on film sessions, done all, done it all. So I said what's what's left here? And I thought it now's the time, you know, to really make a push for it.
Speaker 1:You know, and you were, you were so, so old in your 20s, so you're I mean your retirement's right around the door so you have to start thinking about this stuff. So I'd be curious how did you go about starting? You're like, okay, I'm doing this, and I'm sure you were already getting some solo engagements while you had. We're on the job.
Speaker 2:I've been doing it kind of fairly regularly for the last well, well, 15 years, but to really really focus on it, I knew I had to make a change because I wasn't happy with the way I was playing, because I wasn't happy with coming from the orchestra for a week, going straight into a hard recital yeah. So I wasn't happy with what I was doing in that regard. So I knew some more time and practice and kind of headspace had to go into it. Hard recital yeah. So I wasn't. I wasn't happy with what I was doing in that regard. So I knew some more time and practice and kind of headspace had to go into it. Um, and then commissioning new pieces um, you know you can't do these things when you're in a job as demanding as that.
Speaker 1:There's no time you know it's nice having that. There's something about having that healthy fear of like okay, I'm committing to this, I need to do it, I, if I'm going to make this work, I gotta put the time in, I gotta make a plan, I gotta do all this stuff. And it makes you work harder, right it?
Speaker 2:does make, make you work harder because there's no other choice, there's no option, and um christian limburg told me that. He said you can't do it from a position of comfort. I said I can see that, and partly just from a headspace point of view. You know you can't. If all of your energy in playing is going into your job, the last thing you want to do when you get home is to think about other practices you've got to do or there's not enough hours in the day. You know.
Speaker 4:So you obviously wanted to leave. You had made a decision in your head. Now, putting an idea into action, yeah, okay. So you knew it's going to be hard. You knew it's going to take a lot of focus. It's going to come from a place of like less comfort. How did you finally get the the courage to actually pull the trigger and and walk?
Speaker 2:um, it'd been on my mind for years and you just do it.
Speaker 1:When you're in the car, are you listening to the type of music that you tend to play, or are you listening to just everything?
Speaker 2:Sometimes radio, sometimes stuff I'm playing, yeah, everything, something noise.
Speaker 4:Never silence. I'm a silent driver. Sometimes that's my favorite way to drive.
Speaker 4:Nick likes to be alone with his thoughts and brood no, I think, I think it's just impressive that you were able to actually do that, because a lot of people have big ideas of doing something and they just can't get to that last step of actually, you know, jumping off the cliff, so to speak, because you know it's. It's not to be taken lightly. You went from a job with security to something that doesn't have security. Inherently, you know, and for a lot of people that's enough to like I can't do that, you know. So it's that's impressive that you did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, taking a bet on yourself, you know yeah, and also just see what happens in life as well. You know it was. It was a question of I knew that I wanted to have a go at it, but also I knew I didn't want to carry on doing what I was doing you know not to sound too, negative, but no, no, that's great and that it wasn't an option for me to continue where I was, so that kind of helped you know, yeah, so we like asking about like the nitty-gritty stuff sometimes.
Speaker 1:So you want to do this. Do you think getting a manager is the best route, is it? I just need to contact every single person I know and keep up with these contacts all the time. As far as just the logistics of trying to build a network and a career for things like this, how did you go about beginning that kind of?
Speaker 2:thing. Well, I had a lot of contacts already. So you remind people that you exist, you send them videos, you send them recordings, you come up with interesting concepts, interesting collaborations, and then you go from there. Really, yeah, it's a never-ending thing. You're at it all the time.
Speaker 1:That makes it kind of fun though right?
Speaker 2:I think so, and it's just being open to new ideas and thinking outside the box. I've got a trio with a mezzo-soprano and a pianist, which I never would have had time to do. I've got commissions happening, so you just have to think a little bit more differently. Stop thinking about what's already been done and think about what can be done next. And actually what's been really pleasing in the trombone world is that there's been a lot more great new pieces happening the last 10 years or so. That's true, that's exciting.
Speaker 2:We've got a number of people to thank for that.
Speaker 1:You've been commissioning quite a bit. Every time I look up a recording of you it's some new piece I hadn't heard before. How many commissions have you done?
Speaker 2:so far. I'm not sure. There's a lot more in the pipeline, but you know, probably in the, probably in the 20s oh, that's amazing yeah so any particular standouts that you really like connected with I can.
Speaker 2:I connect with most of them because we usually collaborate as it, as we're doing it. So they want, you know, composers, kind of they want to know how, who you are as a musician. Well, you know the composers I work with generally ones I've chosen they, they work that way they want to know about the, about the musician. You know, they're not just writing a piece and say play this. So there's a lot of me that's kind of gone into it as well, as well as them. So, yeah, what?
Speaker 1:would you, what would you say to, to, to young people that you know they're in music school and they're around composers all the time, but they may be a little intimidated to try to work with them.
Speaker 2:I think composers are looking for opportunities just as much as music other musicians are. So there's no reason to be intimidated. Just ask them, and they'd be silly if they didn't at least entertain the idea. You know, everybody I've reached out to has been brilliant. So, and you know, even when they're not able to, they'll say I'm just not able to right now, but thanks so much, and everybody it's part of the same ecosystem. So we need each other. You know they need us as much as we need them.
Speaker 4:That's absolutely true, yeah. So what's hot on the horizon for you? What are you excited about?
Speaker 2:I'm commissioning a piece by deborah pritchard, fantastic english composer. I've just recorded an album with tradiga brass band which will be released in march, so going through the edits for that at the moment. I've got a tour of the states planned in march as well, if I can get my uh visa hey, that's where I live.
Speaker 1:You coming up anywhere where we are. Where are you, michigan?
Speaker 2:I'm in pittsburgh and he's in new york um pennsylvania yeah, I am starting on east coast and I'm kind of working my way in cool and going all the way to illinois and then down kind of kentucky let me know I'm doing eastman as well, starting in eastman and then yeah, are you coming through the city New York?
Speaker 4:I? Haven't decided yet maybe I haven't decided, yeah, I might do. I mean, I love New York.
Speaker 2:I never yeah, I've never turned down an opportunity to go there.
Speaker 4:Okay, we'll talk, we'll talk. I know some people that's.
Speaker 1:That's super fun. You can enjoy touring again, and well, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:What kind of tour is that? Is it just you and piano? It's a site. Or then master class tour.
Speaker 2:So it's with you and piano University residencies.
Speaker 4:Are you bringing a pianist?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 4:Okay, you're picking up one on the road.
Speaker 2:Brave man.
Speaker 4:Brave. They'll all be brilliant at these places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you're going to great places, absolutely. You already out. No wait till I get the visa. I've got the guys at gets and doing it for me, so hopefully hopefully they'll pull through.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I mean just like everyone in the world, just like everything else. Visas have been affected majorly, like by after covid. Everything takes so much longer to come go through yeah, it's a nightmare yeah yeah, you don't make it easy for us it's, us it's
Speaker 1:us personally yes it's me, I did it. I wrote a letter to my congressman. Don't let that guy yeah he's taking all our trombone jobs I've always been good, I've always behaved impeccably in the states.
Speaker 4:So I don't know how that I don't believe, that I don't believe that for a minute but you'd have to do a lot to get in real trouble in the states yeah, it depends where you are, depends where you are, that's true yeah so okay.
Speaker 1:So a lot on the horizon. That's really exciting.
Speaker 2:You're having fun, I take it absolutely, enjoying every day, trying to, you know, living in the moment, absolutely feeling free. It's great, great to be here living the dream well, well great, should we?
Speaker 1:let's we, let's go into some rapid. You want a rapid fire question? So if you've heard our podcast before, we always finish with our rapid fire section, where you have to accrue points and if you win you get a big prize. That's not true but, we'll love games.
Speaker 4:Don't don't lose. That's all I can tell you.
Speaker 1:You don't want to find out, and this is interesting to you, especially because we talked about your life changing so much at the age of 18. So this is the first question we ask every, every guest what advice would you give to your 18 year old self?
Speaker 2:oh, stay true to who you are as a musician and person. Learn how to manage money.
Speaker 1:Have a social life outside of your job that was good and actually he answered in rapid fashion I like that because it for you. It's a different answer than most people, and I hope you understand that, just because of your position of when you were 18 yeah, a lot of people say just calm down, slow down, so that's good advice as well to be fair.
Speaker 4:My question is going to be on the opposite side of that. Where would you like to see yourself in 20 years from now?
Speaker 2:Honestly, as long as I'm involved in music in some way, I don't mind, I don't know.
Speaker 4:That's fair.
Speaker 2:I don't look too far ahead. That's good too, so wherever I am is cool. I would like to think the trombone will be involved in some way, but who knows?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so for the music and trombone nerds favorite trombone solo you've ever played Desert Island you can only play one more.
Speaker 2:It has to be one, everyone knows. No. Use it as an opportunity to tell people how about top three? I'd probably put the Sulek in there. I think that's a beautiful piece. I can correct you.
Speaker 1:Here it comes, it's a.
Speaker 2:Sulek, sulek.
Speaker 1:Wow, stepan Sulek, you didn't know you'd come here to learn something, did you?
Speaker 4:I'm going to die on that hill Everyone needs to learn. I've learned that it's Shulik Serbo-Croatian I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. It's got to be something new.
Speaker 3:I'm getting a bit tired of all the old stuff, something crazy, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, I'd say that Shulik, shulik, because the problem is the really great new modern stuff that I'm playing is that it's too hard. I wouldn't want to play it every day.
Speaker 1:That's true, you're playing some hard stuff, my man. Oosh. Favorite composer. If you want to do top two or three, you can too.
Speaker 2:Stravinsky, ravel Beethoven.
Speaker 4:That's quite a soup. Quite a soup. I like that. Quite a soup. All right, here's a controversial one. Are mushy peas any good, and why not?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends what you mean by mushy peas?
Speaker 2:because mushy peas up north, as they should be. You get a massive, great big bowl of them and they're sloppy. None of this kind of pea puree thing that you get all right which comes in a little pot like that and they call those mushy peas.
Speaker 4:They're not, but they are excellent yeah, all right, I'll have to try them up north with gravy. Wait, they're already. Yeah, put more on, so it just becomes a big mess. Yeah With, like brown gravy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my goodness, what kind of gravy do you have? What kind of gravy is not brown?
Speaker 4:Well, you go to the pie and mash shop and they have what they call liquor. There's white gravy. That's not liquor, is it?
Speaker 1:When you come to the States you got to have some chicken fried steak and get the white gravy.
Speaker 2:I'm vegetarian actually now, so I won't be having that.
Speaker 4:Okay won't be having that. There are places that do mushroom gravy, mushroom white gravy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having said that most gravies got meat stock in it, so I probably wouldn't have that anymore. That's true.
Speaker 2:It's one of those weird things that you just you look at stuff and it's weird. Like nick and I were talking about. You know how normal it is for you guys to eat beans for breakfast, which we just don't do, and that's only in cafes and you wouldn't do that at home, really, oh, that's more of a traditional. Okay, beans on toast, though oh, yeah, I suppose, yeah, yeah, yeah, but then you eat it.
Speaker 4:It's delicious and it's just like it does taste good. It kind of works it for us.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a billboard that the entire world can see, oh God, and you can write anything on that billboard, oh God.
Speaker 2:You're not making this easy, are you? It'll be a little bit one that you've probably read on a fridge magnet before trying to spread as much kindness as you can, and but first you've got to be kind to yourself, and that's the hardest bit. That's good.
Speaker 1:That's good a little wordy for a billboard, but you know we'll take it you can. You can paraphrase it. We were actually. We saw this big protest. We were walking by the London Tower, Tower Bridge yeah, Tower Bridge and this guy climbed to the top and hung this big banner of political protests and just like hung up there for a while and the police were just like watching him forever. That was our entertaining afternoon.
Speaker 4:But I think Sebastian brought it up because the problem with this protest was he wrote so many words on it you couldn't read what he wrote. So you're sitting there looking, and we were about as close as you could get and still looking like I have no idea what he's trying to say.
Speaker 1:Is it worth going to? Jail for that.
Speaker 4:Okay. With 100 police officers on hand trying to deal with this guy.
Speaker 2:Live your dreams, that was yesterday. Wouldn't make it if I could meme, would it with this guy? Live your dreams, that was yesterday, wouldn't make a very good meme, would it?
Speaker 4:No, it wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Let's see. Okay, ask favorite composer. Oh, here's an. I need one nerdy trombone question. Fine your favorite method book or desert island method book, if you can only work desert island Like etude book.
Speaker 2:Oh, I kind of just like used to take stuff from all of them.
Speaker 1:Really, that wasn't the question, peter, probably the album that's a safe one because there's just so much in it. If you're stuck on an island, you can do a bunch.
Speaker 2:I generally make up my own stuff based on exercises and books, just to kind of keep your brain a bit more stimulated overachiever.
Speaker 1:Okay, got it, but.
Speaker 2:I never write it down. So if someone said, well, can you send that to me? I'd say no, because I've not written any of it down, you know so all right.
Speaker 4:What do young trombonists not do that they need to do more of? Listen to other instruments and kind of a hot take at a trombone festival.
Speaker 2:Huh I think it's a perfect. I think it's a perfect thing to say at a trombone festival, actually, because the more we can, we need to help ourselves get on an even keel with the other instruments and sometimes we don't help ourselves because we don't. You know, we don't, we don't play like. I have a theory about this. I think the trombone is so hard, the fundamentals are so difficult on the trombone, that we forget to be musicians.
Speaker 4:Oh, of course, Just this thing, the slide.
Speaker 2:You know that, in and of itself, yeah, just going from first position F to fourth position G is really hard, I know. So, because all that stuff is so difficult, we forget what we're actually supposed to be doing, which is expressing ourselves and communicating. Which is why, if you're constantly listening to brilliant singers, cellists, jazz players, whatever, and great drum and bass as well, like I'm not saying don't listen to them, you must sure I'm obsessed with jazz, drum and bass, from yesteryear, you know, and today, like like murray mckechan, not many people have heard of him.
Speaker 2:No, will Bradley, tommy Dorsey, obviously it's the 40s, 50s. Yeah, and going kind of further forward from that as well and going back, you know, with Teagarden yeah, amazing, you know. And Irby Green obviously as well, Just obsessed with the way these guys played.
Speaker 1:I don't think people realize how famous Tommy Dorsey was Like. I'm going through an old record store where I live and there's this whole section where it's like the record is like Tommy Dorsey and in the bottom corner it's like featuring Frank Sinatra.
Speaker 2:Like Frank Sinatra was his guest. Yeah, absolutely, he taught.
Speaker 1:Sinatra. A lot talk about talking about vibrato, about phrasing, you know. So, in closing, is there anything that you'd like to say in closing that we haven't talked about? You'd like to say to our I think we're at a range of 116 countries. Now is where the podcast has been listening to. I mean it could be one person each one, but we'll take it, that's fantastic In closing that we didn't say that you'd like to say.
Speaker 2:I'd just like to thank you guys for creating something that brings everybody together, like from all those different countries, because that's really important as well, and one of the beautiful things about the trombone world is that it is incredibly small. Yeah, it certainly is, and that's a really wonderful thing that you know people can connect on your platform and we've got to keep keep doing that and, you know, keep meeting people from different cultures and sharing music with each other, and yeah, so thanks, thank you and and thank you so much.
Speaker 1:We're so excited to see we've done so far in your career and we'll be excited to keep following you and supporting you and seeing what happens next.
Speaker 2:So congratulations on everything and thanks for hanging out. It was a really lovely chat.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Thank you, all right, peter Moore © transcript Emily Beynon.
