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The Trombone Retreat
The Trombone Retreat
Tales of Transition, Teaching, and Triumph with Jonathan Whitaker
Ever wondered what it's like to pack up your life's work and plant roots in new academic soil? Join me as I chat with the tenacious Jonathan Whitaker about his joys, philosophies and his surprising decision to move from the University of Alabama to the University of Illinois in an episode brimming with stories of growth.
This conversation is a candid look into the intricate dance of teaching music. We explore the fascinating dynamics that bond educators and students. Delight in tales that span from the humor in navigating student-teacher relationships all while maintaining the delicate balance of personal pursuits, like celebrating a dog's special day or nurturing a passion for photography.
Wrapping up our auditory feast, we reflect on how hobbies, like capturing the Milky Way or perfecting a golf swing, can harmonize with a demanding career to compose a well-rounded life. Witness our heartfelt musings on embracing change, the significance of perseverance, and the legacy left by mentors like Lance LaDuke. It's an episode that weaves gratitude and humor into a retreat from the ordinary.
Also introducing special features with Patreon: www.patreon.com/tromboneretreat
Learn more about the Trombone Retreat and upcoming festival here: linktr.ee/tromboneretreat
Hosted by Sebastian Vera - @js.vera (insta) and Nick Schwartz - @basstrombone444 (insta)
Produced and edited by Sebastian Vera
Music: Firehorse: Mvt 1 - Trot by Steven Verhelst performed live by Brian Santero, Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz
Thank you to our season sponsor Houghton Horns: www.houghtonhorns.com
Support the show
Welcome to the Trombone Retreat podcast of the Third Coast Trombone Retreat. Today on the podcast, I speak to Jonathan Whitaker, former professor of the University of Alabama and new professor of trombone at the University of Illinois. My name is Sebastian Vera and I'm joined, as always, by Nick Schwartz. It's a real podcast episode, Nick.
Speaker 2:I know we've done it, or you did it, I guess.
Speaker 1:Oh, listen to that jazz voice.
Speaker 2:It's pretty stuffy. Pollen is my enemy. Is that time of year Twice a year? This time in fall, I get destroyed by pollen.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess it's good that we're not singers. Imagine if, like our trombones, just like seasonally, just started acting weird. Mine acts weird every day, so well, maybe, yeah, maybe you need to get it. Get it Some. Uh, valtrex is Valtrex for herpes.
Speaker 2:I think it might be.
Speaker 1:What's the one? See, I'm going to piss people off, but I never really get allergies. What's the one people take? There's.
Speaker 2:Claritin. There's Zyrtec.
Speaker 1:Claritin yeah.
Speaker 2:Claritin makes me feel like I'm on drugs in a very bad way.
Speaker 1:Don't do drugs kids. So, nick, we have some items of note and one special announcement. So, first of all, the 2024 Third Coast Trombone Retreat is happening June 4th through 10th with a deadline of April 1st. Hopefully I got this podcast episode out early enough so you can actually make your tape. Special guest artists this year include Brian Wendell, new principal trombonist of the Cleveland Orchestra, and Peter Steiner and Constanza Hochvortner, their duo. Visit tromboneretreatcom for all the information you need to know. It's a special experience. This is going to be our 11th 11 on the nose. Man, it's a special thing and we don't we don't post a ton about it. We probably should lately. In the news the past well, in the news in trumbo news the past month, we have former retreat alumni. Well, that's, that's the, that's redundant retreat alumni. Evan williams, new assistant principal of the National Symphony. What do you usually call him? Did I have a name?
Speaker 2:for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you usually call him just a different whiskey every time.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, Because Evan Williams, I call him Jack Daniels, or I call him Old Grandad, or you know, just random whiskeys.
Speaker 1:And then Alex Mullins, multiple-time trombone retreat participant, just won the Grant Park Symphony Orchestra bass trombone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we're always so proud of our alumni, alumnus, and their successes, especially when they cross that line into becoming a professional musician where they're making money for their skill set, and that's what we're here for. However you do it, playing the trombone, that's a beautiful thing. Living the dream.
Speaker 1:And our special announcement is we will be visiting the International Trombone Festival, once again happening May 29th through June 2nd, to do another live podcast. We've had guests in the past of our live podcasts. Let's see if I can remember. The first one was Joe Alessi, the next one was Christian Lindbergh, then last summer was Alan Kaplan and Bill Reichenbach. Right this coming summer in Fort Worth, texas, we'll be interviewing Mr Wycliffe Gordon.
Speaker 2:Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. I wish I had my app for it. My phone's charging in the other room.
Speaker 1:Pause for applause. Uh, so that we'll. We're currently scheduled for that Friday I think that's June 1st, um at 1230. So it's going to be awesome. Definitely be there for that.
Speaker 1:On the Patreon patreoncom slash trombone retreat I recently interviewed Lucas Helzel, who recently won a position in the United States Marine Band, and we just went over his entire process on how he prepared and how he went about winning this audition. It was actually a really cool story and that's a video podcast that you can check out on the Patreon as well as every other episode that we've ever done. And lastly, just rolling right through these, nick, I love it. We want to thank our friends at Houghten Horns. So I don't think we've had a podcast episode since our life has been so busy.
Speaker 1:But I got to basically debut my mouthpieces at the Texas Music Educators Association Conference in San Antonio, texas, in February, which is the biggest music education conference maybe in the world. And yeah, I had no idea what to expect and the mouthpieces they sold out in a day and a half Like hotcakes, like hotcakes and it was a pretty special thing just getting to see the look on people's faces when they tried it the first time and getting to explain the process and we're just really proud of it. And so there's a few out in the world right now. The next batch is about to be delivered, so we have a few pre-orders in already for those. So if you're interested in trying them, get your pre-order in now at houtenhornscom. And also you can learn all about the mouthpieces there.
Speaker 1:So this talk with John. I got to go be a guest artist down at the University of Alabama and it was kind of an interesting situation because he had just accepted this new position at the University of Illinois and we get into that and his reasoning for that. But he had literally just told his students like the day before I got there. So the energy was a little. It was interesting.
Speaker 2:I bet yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I had an amazing time, though he's an incredible host, like went out of his way, you know, driving me to the airport at like four in the morning. Just a lot of stuff he didn't have to do, and his students were wonderful. I truly enjoyed it. So you got to listen to it and I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on the outro of it, but I don't want to give too much away. Do you have any initial thoughts?
Speaker 2:I guess my initial thoughts, just to like as a teaser. I just I find him to be warm, but structured in a, in as far as his education is, or his, his teaching is concerned, and I think that that's a wonderful quality. Both of those are wonderful qualities for educator. And, yeah, I'll leave it there for now.
Speaker 1:It was nice venturing down into the land of where you drop the last syllable in every word Going to Alabama, alabama.
Speaker 2:Alabama. It's like the A's and apostrophes, you know.
Speaker 1:I only gained like 30 pounds while I was there, so in 48 hours. So it wasn't.
Speaker 2:It wasn't pretty good, dangerous yeah, well, please enjoy this episode with John Whitaker.
Speaker 1:Hi John Whitaker. Hi, john Sebastian Vera. Yeah, you got the full name. That's good, that's important. Hi, john Sebastian Vera. Yeah, you got the full name. That's good, it's important. So to set the scene, here we are in the Hampton Inn, the luxurious, spacious, beautiful Hampton Inn.
Speaker 1:Honestly? I think so. I mean, in its current state it looks like a tornado hit, but we're not going to judge that. But it was a very nice accommodation. Thank you very much. Where is the Hampton Inn that you're that we're currently sitting? So we are in Tuscaloosa. There we go, and they don't let you forget it, they have the painting on the wall. Yeah, just to remind you, which is nice for someone that travels a lot to wake up like where am I again? Know where you are. Yeah, it's good. Okay, tuscaloosa. It is my first visit to the University of Alabama. I'm honored to be here.
Speaker 4:Well, we are equally honored. I mean, it's been a great couple of days. I mean we've been I feel bad that I've been sort of working you pretty hard, but just really inspiring lessons and great class and recital today and it's just it's awesome to have you here.
Speaker 1:That is very kind of you to say. Yeah, I mean, that's how it is sometimes. You kindly asked me a while ago and we figured out a little niche of a schedule to make it work. And we made it work. And I mean I'm very tired but you do it. And the cool thing is it's like when you're a student you've seen so many other guest artists come in and do the same thing, and so it's a model for you and it's like, okay, if they did it, if they're tired, if they didn't sleep and they taught eight lessons and get recital. Hell, I can't. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And I don't know if it, if you're like this or not, but it seems like I'll schedule one thing and then get calls for six others that happened to you know bookmark. Both ends of it it's like, oh we, I can do that and I can do that, and I can do that and I can do that. And then you realize that you're just sort of running on adrenaline by the end of these tours or these. You know these trips cause this, you know you're on your way somewhere and but anyway, it's always rewarding and it's always. I love traveling and doing trips like you're on, because you have sort of fresh ears and a new audience that hasn't heard or seen your thing, you know it's always energizing, and you get down to the end of the day, and then it's you collapse.
Speaker 1:It's a fun challenge and, yeah, you hit that wall and it's like have you ever been traveling for a while? And then you go home and your body's like okay, now I'm going to catch up or shut you down, you're done. That's right. That's right. I'm sure I'm going to feel like that after this trip, but anyways, it's an honor to be here. But anyways, it's an honor to be here. I've gotten to. You know the original plan was. I've always dreamed of just like seeing what the insane college football experiences at one of the biggest places.
Speaker 1:We couldn't get that worked out this time, which is okay. It was mainly just so my nephew would think I was cool. But just being in this atmosphere is really cool. The music facilities are gorgeous, the vibe of everything and just seeing the stadium and just being around it like just as advertised and yeah, quick, quick trip. But so yeah. So we're here. I got to observe you in Trombone Choir, and how long have you been?
Speaker 4:teaching here 15 years. This is the 15th year. Yeah, it's a long time. I came. I came in 2009, which, for the football fans that are I'm sure there's a lot of football fans that listen to your podcast but that was the first Saban National Championship at Alabama and the first undefeated season in forever probably Is the football team decent here, above average.
Speaker 4:Above average. Yeah, mark Ingram won the first Heisman Trophy in the school history that year, and I just assumed that it was because of the new trombone professor. You know, and oddly enough, the next year, a good friend of mine, henry Henninger, who teaches at the University of Oregon. I don't know if your path is across from Henry. Great player, great teacher. We were classmates together at Indiana University and I think it was the fall of 2010 he got the job, the full-time job, at the University of Oregon, and they went to the national championship the next year. And so I thought well, if the following year was a new trombone professor and a national champion in football, this was going to be at least an article or something put together about the success of the football program and the Trombone Studio.
Speaker 1:It should definitely be on your resume, I mean.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I need to maybe edit that a bit, but I mean you can't refute it.
Speaker 1:I mean, look at the record while you're there. That's right, no problem. So, man, there's so much to talk about with Alabama, let's go backwards a little bit. Yep, so we grew up in western Kentucky, western Kentucky. You want to do a brief synopsis of how you came to the trombone? Really quick.
Speaker 4:I mean there was music in the house but it wasn't trained. I didn't have an opera singer or a concert pianist or whatever. But my dad still does and was an avid guitar player. So we always listened to music or whatever. And I loved my elementary music teacher, who happened to be the middle school band director in the school that I went to and I just could not wait to sign up for band. I wanted to play the clarinet and he said nope, you're tall and have long arms, you're playing the trombone. I said great, so you were always pretty tall, yeah, and I had a very typical West Kentucky high school band experience.
Speaker 4:Marching band was a big part of it and all state, all district band, the typical stuff.
Speaker 4:And I started taking private lessons my sophomore or junior year high school probably my junior year high school with a man named Ray Conklin, who I ended up studying with undergrad at Murray State and from Murray State I got a master's degree at the University of Minnesota with Tom Ashworth and then there was a year after that I was tapped out.
Speaker 4:I didn't want to do any more school, so I thought the most logical thing to do would go and teach middle school band and it was great. A lot of positive came out of that year for me, but it was, I realized, first of November it had been several months since I'd actually played my instrument seriously other than, you know, playing it with one hand and sort of goaltending, you know, and directing traffic with a bunch of middle schoolers in the room and the other. I got called for a gig in an orchestra that I had played in previously and went and did that and just the spark sort of got relit to do what it is I'm doing now. So I auditioned at one school in Indiana University and went to study with Dee Stewart and I got when in Dee Stewart's tenure there was that.
Speaker 4:So it was later. I'm guessing that he I'm trying to remember when he so he retired and Paul was Paul, pollard was his replacement. Dpp, dpp, that's right, and so Paul has been there. Gosh, you're putting me on the spot here. No, I can tell you. I can tell you because I was probably halfway through my tenure at Alabama when Dee retired Mr Stewart it's funny he was always Mr Stewart. I would call him Coach actually, and if he listens to this he'll be a chuckle.
Speaker 1:I mean where you grew up, in Kentucky. You don't call your superiors by their first name, no.
Speaker 4:And even Carl Linthe was the same way. He even once told me he's like you know, you, can you know? When we're away from school you should call me Carl. And I said, okay, mr Linthe, I'll do that.
Speaker 1:Question about that. Like I've been struggling with that personally. Like how do you feel we talked to Ava Orden about this and her philosophy is, like I'm Professor Orden, it's important to have some sort of formal boundary. Like I can see benefits of both. Maybe the students can connect with you better by calling you by their first name, but also you need them to hold that respect.
Speaker 4:So when I first started teaching my first job, I was insistent that they called me Professor Whitaker and I hadn't.
Speaker 4:Actually I'd left Indiana having finished the coursework but I had tests and different things that I had to do.
Speaker 4:But I taught a couple of years before I went back and finished the degree formally. But I insisted on them calling me Professor Whitaker or Mr Whitaker or whatever because I was really close to some of their age compared to now I'm. You know, I'm getting up there in years comparatively and there's a bigger gap between me and even my oldest students and some of my colleagues at the university that I started teaching at sort of recommended like. You really do want to set up that barrier. If I introduce myself to someone, my name is John, like you know, and students when I travel can call me whatever. My students typically, you know they probably call you all sorts of names, yeah, and sometimes not behind my back, but anyway so did that year of teaching band, four years of residency for the doctorate in Indiana, and I didn't go there to get the doctorate, I went there to take lessons from D Stewart and I was going to be in the Chicago symphony as soon as I won the audition.
Speaker 1:That was sort of how those guys were going to retire.
Speaker 4:Yeah, a lot of respect, but there's still the same section that I'm still waiting on, like oh they're in their sixties.
Speaker 1:They're surely going to be a dancer, that's right.
Speaker 4:That's right. But then I got closer and closer to the end of that degree and was advancing in some auditions but then put my name in the hat for a couple college jobs and was getting a look pretty quick. And then I got to thinking about the pros and cons versus the full-time orchestral life and what I ultimately do now and I made a run at it and got a gig pretty fast, like pre-doctorate being finished, which is really not that unheard of from 20 years ago. It's a little more unheard of now. Maybe Not unheard of, but typically a first job they're going to require at least a hard finish date on that degree. You know, for accreditation and other things they want to hire doctorates. Places like the University of Alabama are big flagship places. They don't really care about the doctoral degree. If you have experience, perhaps playing in the Pittsburgh Opera and all the things that you do, they don't really care about the doctorate in our department here. But the smaller schools it's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1:Did your perception of what this job would be like being a college professor before you started. How different is it in actuality?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I thought I was going to have all the time in the world to practice and that first job even was before kids. It was my wife and I in our black lab and I just thought I was going to have all this time to practice and I was really going to finally put the finishing touches on things in my playing that I really wanted to fix. And what you find is that you're so concerned, hourly, every day, with everyone else's playing, a lot of times more so than yours and I remember going into it thinking, all right, I'm not going to be one of these college professors that sounds like no, no disrespect to any of my colleagues that might be listening, but you know there's, there's the, you know the. You know people refer to it as teacher chops or whatever you know, and I just you know it's really hard to teach full time and like sound great all the time, and I think that's why so many of the people that do what I do for a living plan projects, recital tours, recording projects we were talking earlier today my favorite playing that I get to do relatively regularly is concertos, like with bands.
Speaker 4:I love that because it's a specific amount of time. You kind of gauge your conditioning and your endurance level based on what you've got to do to get through, and you're just sort of up there airing it out. I love that and I just you're so focused on the way that everybody else sounds which you should be, that's your job that it's easy for things to. You know your priority levels have to sort of change. And then when you start a family and you have children and they have interests, and you know it gets tough. And so I just thought, well, yeah, I'm professor of trombone at fill-in-the-blank X, I'm just going to practice all day, and that couldn't be farther from the truth.
Speaker 1:There's a certain level of altruism and externalized, we're so hyper-focused on ourselves and being our best version. And then, when you're responsible for all these young people and their futures, which are like we're not you're not like teaching law school where, like, everyone's going to get a job you know you're like that's a huge responsibility. So all of a sudden it forces you to like, really think outside yourself and about the bigger and very quickly you think about what is it?
Speaker 4:I mean, there's specific ways you say things you know and specific advice you give them and you know it really makes you sort of hang on, kind of like the year that I taught middle school band. It's like these kids this is probably their favorite class, like their band class. It was when I was in the 6th grade.
Speaker 1:I bet you were a fun middle school band director it was.
Speaker 4:You know, the funny thing is is the first week I wore a suit every day Because I just wanted them to, not, I mean, I have a tendency of being a little bit lighthearted and I, you know, it's actually part of my teaching philosophy that I want people to laugh and feel comfortable in a lesson so that they, it helps get the best out of them. Like, I don't feel like anybody plays really well when they're scared I certainly don't. But yeah, I wore a suit and it was like super structured and super official for the first week, just so they knew that. You know, new sheriff in town kind of deal, and that went away very quickly. But you really have to be careful of what you tell a sixth grader, brass player, do this, do that, because they're going to go home and do everything you tell them. And if you tell them something wrong, it's like you know, tighten your lips and blow hard for high notes.
Speaker 4:Like it's like that'd be a disaster you know, for a bunch of high school kids and it kind of is that way with a bunch of college students too, the ones that are really bought in and are doing exactly everything you tell them. You have to be really careful about how you explain things.
Speaker 1:So, going back briefly, like talking about the challenge of feeling your best and playing your best when you're, you know you're responsible for all these young people in in a certain sense, and I imagine there's a lot of it's a sacrifice on your part, but there's also probably it's like having a family right. It's like all these other benefits that may be. Actually, I kind of asked about that now. Yeah, were there surprising benefits from having to like this whole new level responsibility?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean it's I feel like I have in over the years I've I feel like I've had a pretty unique personal connection or relationship, some more than others, but could sit down with the list of any of the students that have come through the studio in the last 15 years, and even the five years that I taught in Arkansas, and tell you something about them, tell you something about their family, tell you something about their background, what their musical interests were. Most of them I could tell you what they're doing now, whether being in touch with them or just sort of social media or whatever, and so that's a real rewarding part of the responsibility of trying to figure out what makes them tick and trying to figure out how they're going to best learn, because they don't all learn the same way.
Speaker 4:You know you can't, you can't. There are some that if you sort of even look at sideways, they're just going to lose it, and there's others that you've got to really put your thumb on. They just respond to that type of instruction or motivation. They just sort of need a little nudging, you know, and that's what sort of makes every semester and every year and every class interesting and fun. And it is a big responsibility. You know, because I don. You know because you can't, I don't feel like you can teach every kid the same way. And so the fun part like kind of back to your question the fun part of that and the responsibility is getting to know everybody individually and and then sort of tailoring your approach to to how they are as people and what their needs are.
Speaker 4:No, no, not all of them want to be in the chicago symphony. You know, not all of them want to be in the Chicago Symphony. Not all of them want to be band directors either. We talked at all these different paths and different interests. I've got several in my studio that are double majors aerospace engineering and computer science and all this stuff. But they want to play well.
Speaker 1:And that's the argument for you know, you'd have to say that this level of teaching job is one of the most personal jobs, maybe on campus, because what other class are you not only meeting with the same teacher every semester, but one-on-one every week for an hour?
Speaker 4:For eight semesters or nine or ten.
Speaker 1:So like you can't keep a distance, like you have to build some level of trust, I imagine, yeah, where's the line of like how close you get and you know, because I mean the job feels like part-time psychologist.
Speaker 4:Sometimes these kids are going through the most formative times in their lives Absolutely, and that's part of I think that's part of the responsibility of the job transformative times in their lives, absolutely, and that's part of I think that's part of the responsibility of the job, you know, and I and one of the first things I do with a new class of people is they.
Speaker 4:They come in and I help them get a calendar set up and I help them get their phone, like I helped them get all of the technology, because we do, you know everything, we've got a bunch of different technology things that we use for within the studio, but I sort of make them they're one of their first lesson assignments is I want you to put your entire schedule in for the semester. I don't care if you don't think that you're going to remember that. You have theory monday, wednesday, friday or whatever class it is. Put it in and I show them. If they have never done it and, of course, that's getting easier and easier. As you know, generations come through that have were born with an in their hand you know, it's just easier.
Speaker 4:But set up all your recurring stuff, use color-coded, whatever you want to do, and I show them mine and their minds are blown with all the different stuff and my daughter's calendar and my wife's calendar and you know. And then I have them look for blank spots and fill in those. The first thing you fill in all those blank spots or practice, you know when are you going to. And I say get your first session in as early in the morning as you can stand it to get it out of the way. But also do it while you're. You're mind is fresh, you're not, you're not thinking about you know what professor ticked you off in your 9am or whatever. Get it done, fill it all in and work like mad until five or six o'clock every day and then on your horn and everything so that you don't go home after your last class and you get dinner and you've got all this homework and studying to do and you haven't practiced yet. You know, and just setting that up from the beginning it's like trying to teach them time management stuff and then we move on and then you know, usually middle of the second semester you're starting to kind of figure out what makes them tick and why it is. They learn the way they learn, you know, and maybe what's happened to them in their past or what they're able to share.
Speaker 4:But you're right, it's like part-time therapists sometimes and I can tell sorry. I can tell sometimes when they walk in the room, and particularly if they walk in the room and their horn's not unpacked, I'll just look at them like we're not playing today. Are we what's wrong? Sit down and there's a couch. You saw the couch in my office and it's. Look at this picture and tell me what you see and I can just tell when they come in the room and we'll get through a long discussion and I'll apologize Sorry. And we'll get through a long discussion and I'll apologize Sorry, we didn't play it.
Speaker 1:No, no, this is exactly what I want, and then it's like, okay, is there ever a line where they take advantage of that?
Speaker 4:or you've got to be careful. I've sensed that a few times in my career. I tried every. I had every strategy. I had every question. I had every strategy. But I think every now and then they know that you know. And sometimes the big sort of get out of it is, hey, can we play duets? And then I'll be like no, we can't play duets today. If I suspect sometimes we can't play duets because I haven't played yet that day, it wouldn't do either one of us any good to just pick it up and just slam through it.
Speaker 1:I mean, that shows your wisdom right there. And I'm totally stealing that because in my young career being a professor it's always freshmen, sophomores, it's the, it's the same main issues of time management. And then if they're not managing time from the beginning, college is overwhelming enough to start Then they get overwhelmed yeah.
Speaker 4:It's time management and it's accountability too, because they don't have anybody chasing them to their next class, like in high school, and I always tell them to find a practice buddy, you know, warm up in pairs, warm up in threes.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's good Because, like you know, if you make a date or appointment to meet someone at the gym at a certain particular time to go work out or go play racquetball or do whatever, you're more likely to do that because you've made a commitment to your buddy or to whoever that you're going to meet there.
Speaker 4:Rather, it's like I don't feel like going to the gym today and kind of the same way, trying to get younger students some of the younger students that we get here, you would think at a conservatory it wouldn't be any issue trying to get somebody to you know practice.
Speaker 4:But but at a, you know, sometimes at a state school, it's like just look, you know, set up a, set up a time and and cause, you're going to feel really bad, badly, that you miss that, if you set and the other person came, and then if I find out about it, I'm going to make a joke about it in trauma inquire or something. It's like you know everybody's on it. They're going on to you, you know. So there's all these little tricks and just things that you, you know, that you learn, and the one thing I have learned in doing this as long as I have is that none of the excuses and it, and because I don't, it's like I just don't, you know, I can see right through that stuff now because I mean, how do you balance it out with?
Speaker 1:like you said, every student's different and I and the instinct. I feel like for a lot of people and I remember talking to john kitzman about this the instinct when you first start teaching, for a lot of people is you teach how you were, you taught, we were taught, or you teach how you consume information, or how you learn. It's like love languages, it's like you show love, how you receive love, instead of trying to understand how someone else receives it. So, yeah, how do you? I mean, there's so many scenarios of a talented student who's lazy At some point. You can't practice for them?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think the talented student that is lazy, that does sort of the minimal work, I sort of put the carrot out farther to where at some point they're going to come in and I'm not purposely trying to break them, but they're going to get to a point to where they can't learn this etude in a week or play this solo or just, you know, play duets with them and sort of put them through the ringer a little bit and be like well, you know what, what's going on here. You're a lot better in this. How come you're not? You're not. Yeah, the other thing that I like is the. Well, I played it perfectly in the practice room earlier and I always like what is it about the GPS coordinates of my office that makes you terrible? You know it's, you know, and I, you know.
Speaker 4:I do believe that there's some of that. That happens because there may be some anxiety when they come in the room or just like this okay, I've got to deliver it. But usually by the time they get through their second year and sort of up to the middle of their degree, all of that's sort of worked out and we've figured each other out and worked out the thing and then it gets fun. You just sort of sit there and you're almost more of a coach than a teacher. At that point it's like did you mean this and what are you trying to say musically here? And hey, that's sharp, and you know that that kind of stuff, instead of like really having to get your hands in there to try to, you know, fix every little detail, because they figure it out on their own and how to practice, and then it gets really fun.
Speaker 4:When are you having most fun as a teacher? The weekends? No, I'm just kidding. I think it is those. It's like recital prep and those times to where you literally particularly when a student will bring a solo or something that they're going to perform for the first time and it's meticulously prepared, and then you just sit there and you question every musical decision they make. What are you trying to say here? What did you trying to say here? Did you mean to slow down there? Did you mean for this, which is the most important note of this line Well, that's not the way you played it and having that kind of that's super fun and I don't ever try to impose. You know you've got to play the Tomasi. The way that I play the Tomasi musically. I don't Now if there's somebody, a younger student, that's like has zero anything coming out in a matter of communication like I'll program in sort of your traditional musical. Start here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, morsel Symphony, all that you know, and those are great teaching tools because of that.
Speaker 1:And Rimsky-Korsakov, your favorite.
Speaker 4:No, no, no I have a no Rimskaw or Scoff policy. I need to put a no stairway to heaven. Sign up like at Wayne's World. How dare you? I just can't do it.
Speaker 1:What do you have against arpeggios? Let's move on. No, nothing. I think arpeggios are important. Beat that major.
Speaker 4:I don't know why that piece drives me nuts. I think part of the reason is that when I was a graduate teaching assistant at Indiana assistant at Indiana I taught it every semester these non-maintenance.
Speaker 1:I think there's a level of disappointment too, where we got this very pretty great composer to write us a piece, and this is all we got.
Speaker 4:Can we borrow some from Scheherazade or something and do it?
Speaker 1:Did you write this in an afternoon? The second movement's alright. Yeah, it's pretty.
Speaker 4:I'll give you that.
Speaker 1:You know, there's some stuff.
Speaker 4:I'll give you that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Rimsky-Korsakov is your favorite concerto. Yep, that's right. Please call John and schedule him to play this with your ensemble.
Speaker 4:JS Vera on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'll play it. Okay, it's like I walk in and I don't know the person that well and we kind of just use it to get to know each other. But you and I have been hanging out for like Two solid days, 48 hours straight. Yeah, you're even in there when I'm warming up yeah, warming up, you know, eavesdropping, trying to learn something, and it's yeah. So we've had all these awesome conversations, so it's it's, it's fun to just jump right in and talk about things. But I do want to. You know what an all consuming job because, again, you have to be so selfish. I get to worry about my own playing the majority of the time. I have my students, you have found ways. You have a family, you have two kids, a loving wife, yep, great dog, whose birthday it is today, yeah, today's.
Speaker 4:Wrigley's birthday. Happy birthday, Wrigley. Wrigley was our pandemic project. We got him the day before the stay-at-home order went in effect in the state of Alabama and it was great once the pandemic was over. But there were some rough months in their training Golden Doodle that, but anyway it's.
Speaker 1:There's some golden doodles like exploded with popularity, like everyone was getting because they're like hypoallergenic, they don't shed that's why we got a sweet that's why we got him and they're like among the top five cutest dogs when they're little yeah, and he was supposed to like the the.
Speaker 4:We got him from a breeder and picked, picked him specifically, took the the kids and my daughter actually was like that one. She picked him that's awesome Changed his name I mean his name was I think, his name was no, his name was Theo. There was another one named Dexter. I was like, no, we can't get Dexter because he'll turn into a serial killer. You know that TV show.
Speaker 1:I was trying to think of the name of the stadium where the Cardinals play, or something.
Speaker 4:I lost my train of thought there a second. You're going to have to edit this out, ribby, or fine?
Speaker 1:I don't remember that's easy, but yeah, you did the thing and got the dog and that's awesome. Oh, I remember.
Speaker 4:The breeder told us that he was going to be 40 pounds and he's 75.
Speaker 1:He's a big boy, he's massive yeah, I've only seen pictures but, yeah, but he's awesome, he's awesome and they're so springy.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, it's like Still got a lot of puppy in him at four. Still he's very.
Speaker 1:Any food on the table is gone, done.
Speaker 4:Like he is the ultimate counter surfer.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you found ways to balance such a consuming job. It's not like you're at a small school, you're at a big school. Yeah, and we haven't gotten to your work with the marching band yet, right, right. But before we talk about that, you've developed some hobbies that have spoken to you. Prolific photographer, right, how did we get into that?
Speaker 4:So, before, that you used the word balance and I remember very early in my career my goal every week was to try to find balance and I think I haven't figured it out yet. There's not been one semester that I've like my schedule, like how I organize my lessons and when I do this. I have not found that. And maybe the last semester that I ever teach, maybe that'll be the one that I sort of strike it, because you have so many different hats that you're wearing and then family and kids and hobbies, like you said, and all that anyway.
Speaker 4:But the photography thing came on kind of by accident in a way, when my wife was pregnant with our oldest. It was sort of around Christmas time and we were like what should we do for the family Instead of giving each other a Christmas gift? We're going to have this kid this summer and we'll get a camera. So I got one and took a few pictures of it. It was mainly just to take pictures of her. And then I have a couple of friends in the profession that are really great photographers. Anthony Barfield is a good buddy of her. And then I have a couple of friends in the profession that are really great photographers and Anthony Barfield is a good buddy of mine and remember we started hanging out I think the first time in like 2007 doing early Alessi seminars and some other projects that we're involved in, and he'd always had a camera with him.
Speaker 4:Oh really, and he would always take a picture and I'd look at him. I mean, how do you do that? So that was a little bit inspiring. And then a really good friend of mine, chris Branigan, who is in the Pershing's own Army band and actually is an incredible photographer and does a lot of media work and public relations for the Army band or whatever. He came as a guest artist. He conducts the Washington Trombone Ensemble. He came and conducted the Trombone Choir and my jazz trombone ensemble at the university was playing an outdoor event at a cigar bar.
Speaker 1:Do, you like cigars, I do you never talk about them.
Speaker 4:No, well, I've only been trying to get you there for a couple days. Someone has to be responsible. This week, I know, I know, but anyway I was taking pictures and he's like no, no, and he basically gave me a little mini lesson right there, that thing, and then I was like oh, then I got into it, then I was kind of hooked and then fast forward to gosh, I can't remember the year now it's 2024. No, I mean, I'm getting up to we.
Speaker 4:We went on a trip with the marching band at alabama, my wife and did to New Orleans to see Alabama play LSU in the national championship it's the one that LSU's offense didn't make it past the 50-yard line, in case your listeners care and I had to take that camera. That said camera with me and was taking pictures and showed a couple pictures on the back of the camera to the band director and he said oh man, these are great, we actually need a photographer, could you do it? Had to the band director and he's like oh man, these are great, we actually need a photographer, could you do it? I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 4:It's one of those things like yeah, I can do it, I can do it. And then all summer it's like YouTube, it's like and bought some gear, whatever, and then sort of, the rest really is history. I've been phot. I don't make any money to do that there's several things about that but I do get credentials and get access to football and it's just outrageously fun. But I do take some senior portraits and weddings and stuff like that a little bit. But the stuff I really like to take pictures of are outdoors, hiking the Milky Way and camping and wildlife.
Speaker 1:You'll go on photography trips, we go on trips?
Speaker 4:Where are some of the?
Speaker 1:places you've been well.
Speaker 4:So most recently was smoky mountain national park. It's close to here, about six hours, and chris branigan and chris and griego and up in elkhorn our buddy up there and some have just went camp for two or three days and took pictures, and you know, and several, I'll try to get to colorado every year just to take pictures of that stuff and I've got a whole list of places that I'd like to see. But we took a family trip up to the upper peninsula of Michigan one summer, yeah, to try to catch Northern Lights and do some of that stuff, did you? I've never seen it. I've never seen it. It's kind of a bucket list kind of thing for me.
Speaker 1:Can we do a trip to Iceland?
Speaker 4:Yeah, let's go, you book it, okay, and I'll go along.
Speaker 1:We'll contact the trombonist in the Iceland Symphony and set something up.
Speaker 4:You know what I think? The bass trombonist in that, if I'm thinking of the right orchestra might have a Tuscaloosa tie I might be thinking of the wrong one. David, what's his name? I don't have to look it up later, but anyway, yeah, that could be our end right there.
Speaker 1:Well, that's the tricky thing, because it's like there's no guarantee of the Northern Lights, right? So you have to take a chance, right? And if you don't get them, you're basically traveling like I paid a lot of money to hang out in the dark and cold.
Speaker 4:You can kind of. You can't really predict it, but there's when the solar flare happens. You can get a. There's apps and there's emails and stuff which raises the probability of you might being able to see it. So if you live within a 10, 12-hour drive and if you were willing to sort of like hey, it's Thursday, the thing went off. It's usually three or four days later you go up there and there's a chance, but then if it's cloudy, you're screwed. I'm going to do it one of these days.
Speaker 1:That's a bucket list thing. It's been noted. I've talked about that. Yeah, that would be amazing. I always wondered what Native Americans and early people when they first saw them what they thought was some sort of spiritual sign or something.
Speaker 4:Yeah, probably know what it is yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So some photography trips, and I'm curious, first of all. I mean, it's such a beautiful art form, yeah, and I imagine there's a lot of transference of just the musicality and the skills that you developed as a musician that have applied, yeah and it's something creative that's not playing the trombone.
Speaker 4:That's kind of what is attracted and it's a little bit techie because there's gear to learn but there's also. You push the shutter and it works, it goes off. There's no air balls in photography, but you can mess it up, the exposure can be wrong or whatever. But I feel and I've been on some photography podcasts before and one of them was specifically talking about the correlations between music and photography- Really.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the interesting sort of thread at the end of it was sort of finding your voice, like finding your voice as an artist, as a musician, also finding your voice as an artist, as a musician, also finding your voice as an artist as a photographer, like how you see light, how you compose, what you do with the file Once you get it on the computer, like the post-processing thing, is kind of, as in a lot of ways as creative as the actual art of taking the actual photograph.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of it like instinctual, as far as, like, once you understand how all the tech works, you're kind of just using your eye and following what feels good. It gets that way, yes.
Speaker 4:And I have this trick with myself when I'm in a new room or in a new lighting scenario, I try to pretty much guess what the camera settings are going to be, and then take a test shot to see if I guessed it right. Oh, this looks like this ISO and this shutter speed is going to get it, or whatever, and just try.
Speaker 4:Do you have one of those like light sensors things? No, I don't have one of those. That's just a movie thing. No, they know that. That's a. That's a legit thing. It's just I never shot film at all, it's all been digital. And now, with mirrorless cameras, like you, what you see through the viewfinder is exactly the way the picture is going to come out. It's cheating in a way.
Speaker 1:I just think light is so incredible. Yeah, and like in my very amateur photography, like I realize how important light, like you can try to compose the best photo ever. But if the light is amazing, like the light, the, it's like hard to take a bad photo, that's right.
Speaker 4:And if you're in the most Epic spot and the and it's midday and there's no clouds in the sky, it would say it's just. It's that's when you see a lot of black and white imagery yeah, because there's like. You know they're saying it's like yeah, if you see somebody post a picture in black and white, it means they screwed up the exposure.
Speaker 1:So I do that on my Instagram.
Speaker 4:Anytime it's like a great picture. Yeah, filter.
Speaker 1:And they always get more likes when they're black and white.
Speaker 4:Like're so artistic. Wow, yeah, well, I just had to get something out and the photo sucked. That's really cool, it's awesome. It's just something that we just do and I've got a lot of friends that are musicians, that, like I said, chris, and Kristen Griego is getting really into it.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're about to get me into it. Yeah, and.
Speaker 4:Pat Sheridan is a good friend of mine. He lives in Arizona so I typically try to take a trip to see him every year and last, let's see, it's been two years ago now. We went out and we had had this plan he calls me the weathermaker because we'd had this plan to go to like around Page, arizona in southern Utah, to catch the milky way, and it was march and so it's low in the sky. So you get these arching panoramas of the milky way and book the trip six months in advance. Sure enough, lay there or land there and the whole region is socked in with weather and there's no visibility there. There was one gap in the map for like 12 hours and it was Joshua Tree National Park. So we drove to Joshua Tree instead and we camped in his truck and we got some epic stuff. It was really fun. Are you a golfer?
Speaker 1:Yep, I've always. I've always. I visited Scotland for the first time a couple of summers ago with my family and I visited Scotland for the first time a couple of summers ago with my family and I'm just like, first of all, it's one of the most, because I'm sure you've visited some of these places and they're just like. I can't describe how beautiful this is. You just have to be here. It was one of those and people ask you how it is and you're just like did you go to?
Speaker 4:Old Course did you go to?
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, andrews I walked on it, yeah you can walk.
Speaker 4:I'd love to stand on that bridge. Yeah, I have a picture. Yeah, I'll show you.
Speaker 1:I'd love to go there, but anyways, it just made me think it would be the best guys trip of like or you know if ladies would like to play golf and drink a lot of scotch. That's right, that's right. But yeah, a group of guys and you play on these beautiful golf courses, drink amazing whiskey, take photos. Yeah, go hiking. Yeah, we'll just put that next to iceland, we'll do it I'm brainstorming.
Speaker 4:We might, once we're over that way, we might as well do both cool.
Speaker 1:So you found this balance and that's such a beautiful hobby and it's still artistic. It's creative, like what do you think the best traits in a hobby are to like?
Speaker 4:you. I think it's it's. It's distraction from for me at least, it's distraction from whatever it is that you might be dealing with at work or in your playing, if you're going through a struggle or just whatever it's. You know, and that's the whole thing about balance If your whole life is nothing but you know long tones and ride the Valkyries, and at some point in your life it has to be that way, if you want to really make a run at it and and I, I didn't have any hobbies when I was in school like I was, you know, I mean I did play golf, but I was on it like I was really.
Speaker 4:But you know, for me it is to keep that balance so that I'm not just walking around all the time thinking about work or thinking about student x's middle register or thinking about, you know, trombone, choir rehearsal. They still can't get this one thing in tune or whatever it is. It's, you know it's, and I literally can honestly say, even on most of these trips with musicians, like I can honestly say I don't think about the trombone or think about teaching or any of it at all for a couple days, and that that's. I think that's, that's what you got you got to step away.
Speaker 4:That's right. That's right. I didn't know that, I didn didn't. I mean I, you know that was not early, even early in my career, like in early teaching here, it was work, work, work, work, work. And you're trying to get tenure and you're trying to be established and it's like you know anymore, it's like I don't, I don't actually really care about that near as much as like okay, am I? Am I able to give my students what they came here for? And if I'm not taking pictures of something or taking a family trip or doing something else other than that every several weeks, then I'm going to be kind of lousy in the lessons, right, and how do you, when you do, get to focus on you and your playing, what are the most?
Speaker 1:you talked about playing concertos and you've gotten to play with orchestras all around the country and you have everyone's friends with John Whitaker.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well.
Speaker 1:And you know you had such a long tenure running the Alessi Seminar, which must have been a crazy experience.
Speaker 4:It was awesome and it was really important in my getting started here.
Speaker 4:It was important for me as a student, having gone to the seminar and then gotten the opportunity to run the first one that I ran, which I believe it was 2007.
Speaker 4:And then 2009 was the first one that he offered me a spot on the faculty as well, and we had a great team. We took a really a lot of care and making sure the experience was just so. But a big part of all of those was getting to sit and watch him teach all day and it's like there's just so much stuff that you sort of picked up on and getting to play and getting to play alongside of him and it it was just just an unbelievable you know unbelievable experience. I mean, I think the last time I saw him no, it's not the last time I saw him, but one of the more recent times was at the, the ITF in Columbus, where I met you the first, you and Nick the first time we he and I had gotten. He'd gotten to ITF a couple of days early for rehearsal and he and I went over there early to play golf. Like we played golf and just had a ball.
Speaker 1:By the way, that's still one of my favorite meetings. We're just walking down the street and some guy behind us is like hey trombone retreat.
Speaker 4:I listen to you on the lawnmower.
Speaker 1:I know that's what I said. Hey, that was one of the best comments ever, yeah.
Speaker 4:I do no-transcript.
Speaker 1:And you're. You're such a connector with people and you. You're so personable and easy along with and you're a great listener. You've been incredible hosts and way generous with your time. We don't have to talk about you driving me to the airport at 4 am tomorrow. I have something I needed to tell you about. So your taxi will be here. Yeah, that's right, your show. But there's something to getting to know people.
Speaker 4:It's about relationship building and not about, hey, tell me about your house. The trombone is sort of the starting is the jumping off place, you know, obviously the starting is this. This is the jumping off place, you know, obviously. But I mean I and I I would way rather play in a section or chamber music or whatever with with people that I know and that and that the vibe is really good Cause then you don't really have to worry about, you don't have to worry about any dynamics, you don't have to worry about it sounding good, you don't have to worry about hurting anybody feelings, you know it's like hey, you know, I think this is, this is sharper, this is this or this. I mean it's just okay, okay, great. You're sort of coming at it all from the same, you know, from the same thing you want to hang out? With your friends yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So back to a couple, if I may ask some more teaching questions, just to pick your, your big teacher brain, yeah, teaching. So now at the collegiate level, 20 years, how have you? Has the student mentality, the average student mentality, changed over time? Have you seen?
Speaker 4:Students are unbelievably distracted now, more so than they were even 10 years ago, really, and they are in a general statement. They are more so than they were even 10 years ago, really, and they are in a general statement. They are a lot of them are looking for a quick fix. And some of them are looking and that's not just in my studio with this and I'm not speaking of anyone in particular, but also I've talked to a lot of other professors about this topic, and I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way is that they're looking for a quick fix, and they're often looking for it elsewhere not what happens in whatever studio and just buy in and commit and sort of do the work.
Speaker 4:Now, there are people in every class or every I'm doing air quotes on a podcast, I'm not sure why, but every generation of studio, so every cycle of students, right, there's always two or three that just do it, you know, and they just and I, you know, you've heard a couple of them today and I've had several throughout my life that are in my career that are just. They do what you tell them, exactly the way they tell them, and when you, when you speak to them in a lesson and you ask them to change something, their response is okay. Instead of well, you know, sebastian Vera said on his blah blah, blah you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:And I don't really take offense to them being excited about information. I mean, really I'm in the job of trying to like. For example, if a guest artist comes in and says something and it clicks with a student, then I've done my job.
Speaker 1:I may not have been responsible for that thing clicking, but I was responsible for bringing the guest in and providing them with that experience, and sometimes I'm literally saying the exact same thing I know you've said a million times.
Speaker 4:Someone out of town with a CD and a website is a expert, and I'm the guy that's here all the time.
Speaker 1:Or sometimes it's just like hearing it Right, exactly, secondary, exactly. Oh, maybe my teacher's not crazy. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:Exactly. And so I think I think they're really, really distracted and I think they're really they, they need they. You know, I'll tell I'll. We'll figure out something in someone's sound or someone's technique or articulation. And I said now, you know this might take you six months for it to be default. You can't go into the system preferences and click a checkbox and then it's fixed, you know, and you know you come back the next week and it's probably not going to be any better. You know these are long. Sometimes these are long, you know, long things to fix, you know, and some students just can't, they just don't like that.
Speaker 1:I mean, this is an old school trial and error blue collar like hey, we're going to do 0.25% gain every day. Yeah, I mean every now and then there's something that you can fix pretty quickly.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 1:That's always great in a master class Like you have some tricks.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you got to have a handful of those tools that make somebody immediately better, and every good teacher has that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but at the same time it's like, in a way, we have to be empathetic because it's like all they've ever known is things working very quickly that's right and connected to their devices all the time and information overload all the time. That's why they don't listen to anything and information overload all the time.
Speaker 4:That's why they don't listen to anything. You know the interesting thing I was in my tuba colleague at Alabama. I was in his office a week ago just talking about something. I went to look on the door and he's got something hanging on the doorknob that I never noticed. I'm like what's that? He says that's where their phone goes when they come in this room. Whoa, and I was like, okay, I'm on it.
Speaker 4:Love that I'm going to figure that out, and we'll go through periods of time where I'll make people leave their phones in their trombone caster and trombone choir Just so that when they're resting they're not scrolling, they're just paying attention. I haven't had really any issue with that as of late.
Speaker 1:I always say, the best hack for the simplest app technically not an app, but for productivity in the practice room is Airplane Mode. Yeah, exactly, you can use your metronome tuner still.
Speaker 4:Well, and the other thing about all this, too, is that with social media and the internet, everybody really feels connected to all these superstars and these heroes and they see all these really well-established people putting out content and making practice videos and making this or that or whatever you know. But the people that I'm thinking of didn't really have any of that stuff. I mean, they've accomplished a great deal and they a lot of them are able to put out. Put out this stuff which you don't see, behind the 100-day practice challenge and all these things, is the years of solitude in a room with no technology and, like our heroes and we probably share some common heroes you know we talked about Joe earlier. He didn't have Facebook when he was 18. You know we talked about Joe earlier. He didn't have Facebook when he was 18. You know he practiced a lot, I'm guessing. I know he did.
Speaker 4:But, you know, john Kitzman didn't have, you know, have to check his Snapchat or whatever you know.
Speaker 1:And I really think that's a great. I'm trying to imagine that image right now.
Speaker 4:You're trying to imagine Mr Kitzman on Snapchat. Yeah, but I think it's a. I think in so many ways it is. It's made them impatient. It's also made them not able to. Discernment is not a skill that a lot of young musicians have. They can't. They for themselves can't discern quality levels. From recording to recording to recording, it's what's the easiest access you know.
Speaker 4:Hey, did you listen to recording such and such? Yeah, I got one Great One. That's okay, that's a start. Who was it? I don't know Where'd you find it? Youtube, like the first thing that popped up. I heard the one recording yeah, the recording of Mahler 5. There's just one and it's on YouTube or whatever. I'm fighting those battles all the time. I'm pithy about it. I kind of rib them about it. I'm going to be 50 this summer, so I don't know if 50 is when you can officially play the old man card or the old teacher card, but I'm playing it right now because I'm twice the age of these people.
Speaker 1:It's like with every technological advancement there's a lot of things that are negative but there are a lot of things that are positive. So can we somehow use this to a positive? Yeah, yeah, they're more connected, I guess. Yeah, you're more exposed, but I guess there's more quality over quality. Yeah, I do. I do see sometimes that, especially if they're only listening to recordings and not going to live performances, there's a perfectionism thing involved with they. They think it should always be perfect and all mess it up.
Speaker 4:All of those recordings are lies, you know, and some more than others. But there's always, yeah, the perfectionism thing. That's a great point. And you know the other thing that I was. I have a I liked your airplane mode thing.
Speaker 4:But I have a thing that I do at master classes a lot about their phone, and if people have legitimate social media addiction or just addiction to their technology, I tell everybody to make a folder and put all of the apps that, whatever they are Snapchat, tiktok, whatever Twitter, x, whatever it is put it in a folder title the folder in bold letters go practice, wow, in bold letters go practice, wow.
Speaker 4:Then on the phone, make as many pages as you have to scroll and put it on the last page and then, before you turn your phone off, get in the habit of resetting it to where it goes, to the home screen. So then if you're in the practice room and you pick this up and you make several conscious decisions to turn it on, to scroll over to read the words go practice and then click on tiktok, then it's like, okay, that's a habit that you sort of have to break and it, you know, I've heard from dozens of people that's like, yeah, I did that for six weeks and it really helped, and now I just don't pick it up in the practice room anymore. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:What are you most proud of during your career so far?
Speaker 4:The successes that each individual have, and that doesn't necessarily mean winning an audition or whatever. Sometimes people get midway through their degree and they realize that they would rather be X than a trombone player, and I love that because they figured out what they want to do. But just hearing about their individual successes whether they win an audition or they get a college job of their own and have students of their own or start a family or whatever I mean that really is the's a it's that that really is the thing that I'm sort of the most proud of, and maybe secondary is the culture that we have established. It's, you know, my, I have a teaching philosophy that I've said hundreds of times at different places is, and it's simple, it's offer the best experience possible Now. And it's simple, it's offer the best experience possible now.
Speaker 4:I always qualify that by saying I'm not saying it's the best collegiate trombone experience in the country, not saying that it's also, but it is the best experience that I know how to do, based on my experiences and my teachings and the resources that I have at the institution. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that's just so. Guest artists, you know trombone choir a vital part of what we do studio hangs, you know, chamber music, section, coaching, all of the stuff you know. I'm pretty proud of sort of the mark that that has made you should be, you know, on the people that have come through that and I think pretty much without fail, everybody would tell you that has been through it, that they had a good experience. I hope so.
Speaker 4:I really hope that there's not this whole group of people that study with me. They're just like oh, it was just awful. I don't think. I hope not the experience. I might be feeding them a line of garbage when it comes to fixing their whatever, but they had a great time.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, it's a family. That's right. It really feels like it, just even being here for 48 hours yeah, I mean that's a special thing it's a good bunch and it's you know. How do you go about like?
Speaker 4:building trust, is it? Just I want to get to. I try to get to know them as soon as possible, and we've talked about this a couple times driving around and I try to make them laugh as quickly as I can, huh, so that they feel comfortable coming in the room to sort of be vulnerable and play something that they're maybe not good at. And so if I know something about them and the lesson usually starts with you know how's your boyfriend, how's your girlfriend, how's your this, how's your that? You know how's this professor that you hate treating you like, just know sort of what makes them tick. You know, and and you start to accumulate that as they go through the program a little bit, you know.
Speaker 4:Then, when it's time to sort of all right, let's fix your mental register or whatever it is, then we're sort of they, I think, have a feeling that we're sort of going at the thing together, yeah, and we're after the same thing, but I'm not, it's not this, we have to do it this way or you're never going to. You know it's like all right, let's figure this out. Defenses are down.
Speaker 4:That's right.
Speaker 1:It's probably something when they realize that you care about them.
Speaker 4:I hope so, yeah, I really do and I do, and I think I think most of them feel comfortable. I mean, I, you know, they, they talk to me about things that are completely not related, you know, and that that makes me feel good too, that they trust, like, hey, can I talk to you about something? I've got something going on.
Speaker 1:I need some help with what, I need your advice, or I just need to get this off my chest, or whatever so 15 years, yep, been at the university of alabama, yep, and something that we've been talking about and is, you know, will be breaking news, probably by the time this podcast comes out and you can talk as much or as little as you would like to about this and you have a new position.
Speaker 4:I have a new appointment pending and by the time this is released, it will not be pending. I've been offered a professorship at the University of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana. Yep, there's one person clapping.
Speaker 1:Just like my recital tonight.
Speaker 4:They were all clapping. There was only one person there, but they were all clapping and I'm super excited. I just think that it's gonna. It's a the opportunities there are. Are there no boundaries on what might be possible there? But between the, the other faculty and the facilities and the resources and the sort of the culture of the school and the history of the school as a, as a total school, I'm just super excited to sort of get started and kind of build, build a destiny, hopefully build a destination to where it's. You know it's on the list of places that people look.
Speaker 4:I have no doubt I'm I'm very hopeful. Why, though? I just kind of felt like it was the right time. There's been several years, so when I first got here, there were a couple of jobs that I sort of put my hat in the ringer for and was way too early. You know, eastman, all these places for professional and personal growth for me in different ways there than I have here, because of the resources that they have at the school versus the resources we have at our school at Alabama at the moment in funding and collaborative piano and just a bunch of things that I don't know I just saw potential to be able to sort of do more and do more for myself but but more importantly, do more for another crop of students and if you know when people are able, when I'm able to talk about this with people and then, hopefully, students look at the program.
Speaker 4:I don't know what the roll slide hook is going to be yet. I don't know what the hashtag will be. I know I'm like I it's way cart before the horse can't start lessons until you have your. I can't even. They probably won't even let me buy a house until I have the website bought.
Speaker 4:But I'm hoping that what they do is that they can look at the 15-year record of what we've done here, both on the website and our youtube channel and social medias or whatever, and and it's literally the culture and everything it's all going to be transplanted to there. There probably won't be as many Southern accents and the barbecue won't likely be as good. Closer to the Cubs it's exactly closer to the Cubs and having the Krannert Center of Performing Arts right there and Chicago Symphony Schulte used to record there. Chicago Symphony plays there very regularly. Lots of really important musical acts come through town and it's just right across the street. I mean, that's one of the things I'm really excited about is having sort of an arts, a little bit more of an arts sort of thing happening to be able to go and listen to new music or go see a ballet or go listen to the whatever.
Speaker 1:It's such a cool location. We were looking at the map the other day. Yeah, because you have Indy, st Louis, chicago, so many great orchestras, and I also have family history with that school and I have cousins that live in town.
Speaker 4:They don't know about the job yet, but they will by the time everybody knows. But my grandparents are buried half an hour from there. Wow, both sets of grandparents are buried there. My parents grew up in the area. I was born close to there. It's a couple hours closer to home from there to where my mother and my brother live and where Amy's my wife's family, is right there. It's close. It's a little bit of a quick. It makes it a little bit more of a quick. Hey, let's go down for a day, rather than we need to plan a trip. I'm a huge Chicago sports nut, so, like, that's how I sold my son. It's like hey, dude, they're two o'clock game at Wrigley field, we can eat breakfast at 15 years in any place is a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean for any job. I mean just the change of scenery alone is going to is is excited. I'm excited for you, yeah, but I I can't imagine this was an easy decision.
Speaker 4:Not at all, and it's students and colleagues and just you know, we kind of made a life here a little bit Like our son was born here, a kind of made a life here a little bit like our son was born here. Ainsley was my daughter, was one when when we moved here I think her pitching coach might be the person that is the most upset. It's like she was the one. I actually called her the other morning on the way to get you to the airport because she was one of the people that I hadn't hadn't told, because now, at the time of this recording, my students know and my colleagues know they don don't know where, but they know that something's coming.
Speaker 4:How was that experience? It was tough. I mean, the first 10 minutes was rough. I had to sort of stop. Tears didn't come out but I was choking it back and they could tell. And then I sort of ripped the band-aid off and told them and there was sort of this awkward, what felt like minutes, but just a few seconds. And then I just told them and there was sort of this awkward, you know what felt like minutes, but just a few seconds. And then I I just told them. You know, I told them several things I said. One of the things I said is that if you all took out a pen and paper right now and wrote down 10 things that you thought were why I was doing this, you'd get seven of them. They probably would you know cause they're. They're, they're paying attention, they're smart and I'm, I'm I'm in the most professional way possible. I don't, I'm not very guarded with them about stuff you know and they ask questions that sort of trigger you know. They all they get it Okay.
Speaker 4:The other thing I've told them is that there's not a person in this room that wouldn't do the same thing if you had the opportunity, because of a lot of you know, because of the terms of my appointment and contract and just things that they're very eager and armed to build a, to help me build a really special thing. And it's so, but it was. And then 20 minutes in, I let them ask some questions and stuff and then we were right back to laughing and cutting up and making fun of you know, the two or three punching bags in the room.
Speaker 4:It was, it was, it was great. There's always a couple of punching bags, that's right. That's right.
Speaker 1:But there's, I mean there. It's not like all of your students will graduate at the same time and you don't have to do anything?
Speaker 4:There really isn't, and you know we're starting to have conversations with each of them individually about. You know I let them get it off their chest and then I give them advice and I tell them I said I'm going to give you advice that I would give you if I were your parent, if you were my child, what I think you should do, and somebody that's right at the tail end of their. There's no reason for you to get in the transfer portal.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't that be nice if all you had to do was upload some recordings and then some great guy calls you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you need a solid third partner quartet citizen. You need a good defensive lineman.
Speaker 1:We got your player and they'll just secretly give you some cars.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would love some NIL NIL. That doesn't come in the Trombone Studio at all, but it's been. You know, there are people and colleagues and experiences that I'll miss, and when people what will you miss the most?
Speaker 4:Probably some colleagues. You know that'll be tough and when people find out about this, when this actually I mean people already sort of know it's kind of starting to make its way through. You know, already sort of know it's kind of starting to make its way through, you know. But when the general, like everybody knows, there's going to be a lot of head scratching. You know, because it's like they see my posts on my personal accounts about, you know, standing on the sideline in Alabama football and taking all these trips and working with this, what I think is one of the best, if not the best, college marching band in the country and all this, like, how in the world would you give up this? But you know, as we know, nobody's sort of airing their dirty laundry on their social media.
Speaker 1:There's no microphone here. I mean you could say everything, yeah well, no one's listening.
Speaker 4:Look at the time, but it'll be the colleagues and sort of the relationships that I've built with a handful of them.
Speaker 1:And like we were talking about I don't know if you're aware, since you've always been here, but there's a fairly sizable fan base for Alabama outside of Tuscaloosa.
Speaker 4:I understand that their football games are televised.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure you'll be able to watch. Yeah, but based on your record, based on the team only being good while you're here. If you leave, we're going to see what happens next year, I mean. I don't think it has anything to do with saving.
Speaker 4:Alabama in the last 15 years and I've kept track of this 188-21 in six national championships. That's you know. So if next year they lose six games and Illinois makes it to the Rose Bowl for the first time in 20 years you know, build a statue, by the way, just quickly, like how I would love to see that statue.
Speaker 1:I'm imagining what pose you'd be in.
Speaker 4:I'd have the ring of confidence on my chops for sure. Like it would look like, I just played a high F for 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:Just briefly, like how hard is it to be and like the coach you hired is like an incredible coach, right, but like how hard is it to be replacing this Nick Saban? And like how little a leash will you get if you lose four games?
Speaker 4:Well, I'm going to go on the defensive for the new coach here and if you look at our schedule, I mean Saban could have lost three games next season. I think it's the second or third game. We're at Wisconsin, which historically they've got a strong whatever. It shouldn't be any issue. Then the next game, georgia comes here. There won't be any bigger game in college football than that next season. Fight me, there won't be. We have to play at Tennessee, which a couple years ago they sort of broke there. There were people that like there were teenagers that had never seen Tennessee beat Alabama in football.
Speaker 4:It was funny. Then we last second it was, and I was there. It was brutal At Tennessee, at LSU, at Oklahoma, which is now Oklahoma and Texas are in the SEC now and there's. So there's this sort of it's brutal. You know the schedule is brutal and I say, if he gets 4-0, beats Georgia and beats Auburn at the end of the season, it doesn't matter what happens in the middle Fan base-wise, he's going to be fine. Now, with the new, we've got another hour to talk about this, but with the new playoff format 12 teams there's no way they're not going to be in the playoffs. Sure, sure, it's just like.
Speaker 1:So it's just a bad it's because it's all rigged anyway, so it's all rigged, it's a.
Speaker 1:you know, paul Feinbaum basically picks the four teams and then you know, as for someone that gets to experience this rare phenomenon of you, know, for a listener in Australia right now when we're talking about college football, clear, which is, you know, of the major sports, it's like it's the number one college sport as far as I mean. March madness can get a lot of attention, but to describe what the energy is like and what it feels like being on a sideline, you get to go on the sideline all the time taking photos, you get to work with the marching band. The energy, I mean, can you?
Speaker 4:even describe. No, and it's unbelievable and it never gets old. Week after week, you walk through the tunnel onto the field before the game's even started and it's like walking down the Coliseum in Rome. You know, it's just like this. How many people? 103,000. 103,000. Yeah, yeah, all sober. Yeah, it All sober. Yeah, it's like anything. And then being in the stadium in a big, particularly a night game against a rival, you know, at LSU or Tennessee or whatever, I'm so mad I didn't get to go.
Speaker 4:You know what? We can still go. They're not. You know they're not. Contrary to what people might think, since Saban retired, they're not shutting down the athletic department. There will still be games.
Speaker 1:They're not putting it all into the music department.
Speaker 4:Now I haven't read that memo yet, but there's ways We'll get you in a game. But it is pretty unbelievable and if you follow the sport at all I mean I was you know 25 yards from where Tua threw that pass to Devontae Smith in the National.
Speaker 4:Championship oh wow, second 26. You know the number of games. That was a good game, amazing. I was at the Auburn kick six game. Ouch, it's brutal. I hate going there. I'm just going to say that for the record for all your listeners. It's a miserable. I hate going there. I just hate it so many memories? Because it's just like freaky, freaky things happen. We beat them by three or four touchdowns every year in Tuscaloosa. It's always a one-score game down there. It doesn't matter how good the team is.
Speaker 1:That's why you love rivalries because it doesn't matter if your rival is 3-10 that season, it'll be because they know you Right and their whole season is worth it. If they just beat you that one time, yeah, but we could talk about Alabama football forever One of my favorite subjects. It's got to be such an adrenaline rush. I mean, do you have a crash after games?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I have a routine after games, actually regardless of what time the game is over. I go home, I put the memory cards from the camera in the computer and I start just sucking down all of the files. I go and change clothes out of the stuff that I've been wearing all day, I get a cigar, I go on the back porch and I try to find 10 images that are social media worthy and edit them and send them. I used to do the social media for the band too, so I just made it a point I wanted to post before I went to bed, and now we have someone great that does that, and then I just sort of feed pictures and so I just like to get a handful of them edited and whatever. And so the decompress is watch whatever lame West Coast game is on late at night I'm teasing but watch the late football game, have a cigar, put my feet up just sort of decompress.
Speaker 1:You've got to bounce it out. Yeah, I mean it's like because, literally, the chemicals happening after that sort of adrenaline it's equivalent to being at a rock concert. Yeah, adrenaline, it's like, it's equivalent to like being at a rock concert. It's nuts I mean. They even talk about, I mean, musicians. There's those studies of even classical music. Musicians can experience the same chemical release of euphoria and you're feeling it late at night and that's why so many musicians need to go to the bar and have a drink and why there's drug issues in all.
Speaker 4:All music is because you have this high and you got it, but that's but you also feel it on the on the flip side too, after a rare loss. It's just like you just feel like you've just been kicking the gut why do I like this game?
Speaker 1:yeah it's like why I'm a dallas cowboys fan.
Speaker 4:Oh well, you, so you don't like the playoffs no, I it's.
Speaker 1:There's something way worse about having being sold high expectations every year and constantly being laid down. I would much rather have a team that just is terrible.
Speaker 4:How is it, being a Cowboys fan and living in Pittsburgh, do you follow Steelers at all?
Speaker 1:You know, to anyone in Pittsburgh over the age of like 45, they hate the Cowboys. I mentioned it, that was a right. They remember the Super Bowl losses. Yeah, I remember those.
Speaker 4:that was a right that's like they remember the Super Bowl losses. Yeah, I remember those games most people under a certain age.
Speaker 1:Don't care, and it's interesting like living when I lived in New York City. Most people are not from New York City, so you like whoever at the bar.
Speaker 4:If you go to Philly, you better like Philly teams but if you, if you put on some Bama swag and take a run through Central Park, you're going to get five or six roll tides. It's happened. I love that. It's like every anyway. Sorry.
Speaker 1:I love that Roll slide. We barely even talked about it. That's right, the best hashtag ever. Roll slide. Okay, I think it's a good time for some rapid fire questions.
Speaker 4:Oh, here we go. I've been a long-time listener. I'm anxious to see. Which I very much appreciate. By the way, I'm anxious to see what we're going to get here.
Speaker 1:Well, you know the first question advice to your 18-year-old self, I would say make it a habit to take care of yourself physically and psychologically, mainly physically.
Speaker 4:Make it a habit. When you're young, establish a habit of taking care of your body, exercising and my weight has fluctuated quite a bit and I'm sort of trying to get it back down to a reasonable thing you should walk to Illinois. That'll do it, yeah, daily. But make it a habit to sort of take care of yourself and and yeah, that's what I would tell tell myself.
Speaker 1:Good answer. Hmm, let's see. Well, you, this would be good.
Speaker 4:I mean favorite, favorite recording that you've been a part of that. I've been on. You just played me an incredible yeah, people need to hear. It was probably recording Anthony Barfield's Soliloquy. I was in a trombone quartet for a long time called Stentorian Consort and the recordings are still out there on the streaming stuff. I'm incredibly proud of them. It was a great group. We commissioned Anthony to write this piece called Solically for Solo Trombone and Trombone Quartet, with Joe Alessi as a soloist and sitting next to him in a recording session and he's playing the solo part and I'm playing lead in the quartet and so we have a lot of this stuff paired together or whatever. And it was so intense and it was incredibly rewarding to be able to sit next to your hero and try to keep up Try.
Speaker 1:And I just want to say you just played a recording of you soloing on the Mackie. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Hymn to a Blue Hour and that's absolutely gorgeous, thanks.
Speaker 1:Can people hear that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's on Spotify, apple Music. It's on one of my, one of my discs, and I'm the most proud of that track in particular because the background are were students of mine at the time undergrads, and a couple of grad students, and I'm as proud, or more proud, of the way they sound than you know anything that I did on it, but it was, it was fun.
Speaker 1:I seriously recommend listening to that. It was absolutely gorgeous and so well recorded and so beautifully played. Thanks, I got to listen to it right before we did this, so that was really cool. Let's see. Oh man, there's a lot of good ones. I just jot down a lot of these. What do you think, your younger self? It's almost the reverse question of the 18-year-old. What do you think your younger self? It's almost the reverse question of the 18 year old. What do you think your younger self would think of the life you've created today?
Speaker 4:I think they'd be excited. I think I'm kind of doing what I always thought that I wanted to do. I meaning that I wanted to be doing music right For the longest time, I wanted to be a band director and and do the thing. But that that that wore off pretty quickly. But the fact that I'm teaching at a flagship institution, I have all these students. I've had all this really cool stuff that I've gotten to do. I think they would be. I think they'd be pretty stoked.
Speaker 1:What advice would you give to a person starting out on a path that that you've been on like? Wanting to do a university teaching position, wanting to do a university teaching position.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, it requires some school and we talked about that earlier in terms of the degrees and all that sort of stuff. I think you've got to play just as well to get one of these college teaching jobs as you do to get a playing job anymore, because there's so many. I think there's a lot of people looking at the life and the career that an applied music teacher has the flexibility, the artistic outlets, the. You know you're not really locked into playing what they tell you to dream, but you've got to play incredibly well and you have. You really need to have other skills that market you. You know you've got to be strong. I think you need to be strong in other areas be able to conduct, be able to be able to coach chamber music, be able to, you know, teach theory, teach this, teach that. I mean I think it's going to become more and more necessary for those things to happen.
Speaker 4:You know, and your, your master's degree is incredibly important because I think that degree is a practice degree. It's usually, academically, is the less rigorous of the three traditional degrees and you need to go study with a teacher that's going to just put you really get your your really get your playing in shape your doctorate. You need to study with someone that is placing people in the job market, and there's a lot of people that are doing it and that's by and large. That's the only reason to get a doctorate really is if you want to be a full-time collegiate, if you want to get in that break into that door.
Speaker 1:Sorry, that wasn't very rapid fire no I love that that was such a substantive answer. That's going to be helpful to a lot of people. So we haven't talked much about it, but you have a young softball superstar in your family, yep, and you are a very proud softball dad, I am.
Speaker 4:It's like, just yes, I'm very proud. I'm not going to say what I was just saying. I am all in.
Speaker 1:I love it and we're not talking like, oh, I go to the games and I cheer for my daughter, you're working with her all the time, you're helping her. There's such a. You've explained this process. It's such an intense, competitive, like any division one athlete sort of process you have to go through to get recruited.
Speaker 4:It's way different than just like playing your horn and going to show up audition day. I mean, the whole recruiting process is completely different and when you can talk to them and when you can't talk to them, and who you can talk to, and how you talk to them and correspond, and then it's like September 1st of their junior year. Then how you talk to them and correspond, and then it's like September 1st of their junior year. Then all bets are off and then the phone starts ringing or whatever, and you really go to all these tournaments with your travel ball team, where they're called exposure tournaments, and all of the college coaches go to watch these games and then you find out which college coaches are going to be at the game and then on your Twitter feed, you tag all these coaches and you email the coaches. Here's my schedule I'm playing field six. It's this whole thing and you just hope that they and, as a pitcher, you hope they come and watch you when you're in the game. You're not. You know you're not on the bench or playing your secondary position or whatever.
Speaker 4:What's the best part about being a softball dad? The time ball dad, the time I get to spend with her. It's unbelievable we have, I think, and I don't know if she'd say this or not, but the hour it takes us to drive to her lesson and the hour it takes us to get home after her lesson is like my favorite part of the week, you know, because and she, you know she's maturing and she's 15 and has got like real things to talk about. You know, it's like you have this real connection, this real relationship with her. It's just awesome.
Speaker 4:So she has like lessons like pitching coach Every week we go see a specialist in just a little bit south of Birmingham. Wow, and they, you have to bring a catcher with you, and so I'm the designated catcher. So I'm sitting on your bucket, on the bucket sideways, protect the chops and with a, and I I'm the only, I'm the only dad in there wearing a face mask, and of course, people ask me why do you?
Speaker 4:And it's like it's for my job. I'm a lip model. I can't take it. And the other thing is that there's nothing soft about softball. Those things hurt and when they're coming at you 56, 57, 58 miles an hour and you miss and it hits your ankle, it's not fun.
Speaker 1:What I would say is well, I mean, I'm a trombonist and I have a very strong arm. I'm just protecting the softball.
Speaker 4:It's like you should put a big ring of confidence in the side of a softball. But no, I am all in, I just love it and I love how into it she is. And I mean you heard us. We were in the truck after you know, called home to sort of talk to everybody and I was like and like, put her on the phone, how'd you pitch, how was your? How was your curveball today? Who got a hit? No, I'm gonna, but you know she.
Speaker 1:She spoke to us in a british accent.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she's like, yeah, she, I can't. She would never do that if you were face to face with sheila barris. Miss, it's pretty cute the way she can kind of carry on.
Speaker 1:So, man okay, that's awesome. So, yeah, photography and softball, dad, those are. That's great balance. Yeah, since you're a tim ferris fan as well, yeah, and you called me out for my tim ferris question. I stole. I'm going to ask you it. Okay, if there's a billboard that the entire world could see and you could write anything on it, what would it say? Trust the process.
Speaker 4:I stole that from my colleague Nick Saban. You know we're employed at the same institution. Oh, did he coach here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, have you heard of him? He does the sports.
Speaker 4:He's the sports ball. Okay, yeah, Cool, Trust the process and I have this whole clinic that I do at universities and I did it at the Midwest Clinic a few years ago about the correlations between coaching and what we do as musicians and basically take two or three of his famous speeches that people have watched on YouTube and took point by point by point and porting it to specific music things and down to the well, he's talking about this, these are your long tones and this is playing your drums and this is rhythm work, and it's so easy to draw inspiration from somebody that is such a great communicator as he is and teacher.
Speaker 1:You should have gotten that thing with your studio where you just touch that button and the door opens. Yeah, I need to do that. I'll work on that. Then you never have to stand up yeah, I need to do that. I'll work on that. Then you never have to stand up. Yeah, I just make them open the door. I imagine you've had conversations with him.
Speaker 4:No, I've photographed him a bunch and he comes to band rehearsal every camp and talks to the band and so he's there and I'm always taking pictures. But it's always made very clear that when he's around it's not a photo op. He's there and then he leaves. He's polite and stuff, but he's coming straight from practice and he does a thing. And then that afternoon we take the leadership and the seniors of the band over to football practice and get to watch football practice and then teach the freshmen the fight songs. If you ever watch those clips on ESPN, there's a chance that you can see me in the back sniping with my camera. We did have an interaction one of my first years. I was driving from where I took my son to daycare and passing the football complex to go to the music school. I look up and here he comes. He's in the turning lane. I'm like, oh my god, there's Nick Saban, I, and here he comes and he's in the turning lane and I'm like, oh my god, there's an excitement, I got to play it cool.
Speaker 1:So I sort of put my hand up on the steering wheel and I sort of gave it one of those attaboys.
Speaker 4:You know, raise a hand. And he gave me. Yeah, he did.
Speaker 1:I'm like we're boys, boom, we're boys so, basically, you, you talk about him but you don't talk to him, and you've taken a lot of photos of him yeah, so we're pretty much besties you're the equivalent of a stalker. I mean by all definitions, you know one of millions.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know that's very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well man, I I literally, I mean, I have been talking to you all day, yeah sorry and I know it's been such a pleasure, and you know I'm exhausted, but you've just made this whole process so wonderful. Well, I appreciate it and I'm glad that, because we've been talking- We've been corresponding on and off and little.
Speaker 4:Facebook thing or Instagram things and text stuff, and then when we started to sort of plan this visit, I just wish Nick were here, actually.
Speaker 1:It's all right. Does anybody ever say that no, Okay, no, he's fine. He's just an AI that I put in to like make fart jokes every five minutes when there's a lag.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, next time we hang we'll have to make sure we have the whole crew together so we can get the full retreat experience.
Speaker 1:Well for sure, and he will be listening to this and we'll be talking about it. Yeah, I think I'm also nervous. You two in the same room. I mean, is that going?
Speaker 4:to be bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, who knows what will happen there. Well, maybe we shouldn't turn the microphone on for that, for that one, but man it's. It's just been really nice getting to know you I've I've had such respect for you from afar for so long and just getting to watch how you work and even in a small dose and in the way you've treated me. It's been just a really beautiful little trip and I feel honored to be here. I feel like you're, we're we might be friends now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think we're in the club, I think it's. I think we're gonna have to sort of keep this thing rolling.
Speaker 1:So let's, we'll do it again so we'll text at like 3 am every night.
Speaker 4:Well, maybe tomorrow, since we got to go to the airport.
Speaker 1:So my god, we can call each other and look at the moon at the same time yeah, I felt bad.
Speaker 4:Actually, I called you the other day about some details of your trip and you were just waking up and saying, oh, this is a terrible way to wake up, like me I needed to get out of bed.
Speaker 1:No well, this has been awesome. In closing, is there anything that we didn't mention, that you'd like to say? Huh?
Speaker 4:I don't know. I think a career in music is worth the effort. I think the worth the effort. I think I mean it really is rewarding when you find the where you want to be in the profession, whether it's, you know, playing the pit in an opera or playing a major symphony, or teaching, or even teaching middle school band. I mean I have the most respect. The middle school band directors are probably the most important people on the planets and get getting foundation, getting people started and interested in music. And you know, and that's why I really don't have, I have a pretty open mind about, you know, talking to marching bands or going and talking to middle school bands and it's just all. You know, that's what they enjoy and you know. I just think it's really worth the trouble.
Speaker 4:You know, because I have this saying and that we've I've talked about with friends and family all the time. It's like being a musician. You have one in. You have one more very time-consuming and incredibly important thing to do every day than sort of the normal person and that's practicing, and a lot of it regularly in a room by yourself for hours on end, and it's not always pretty and it's not always fun and it's it's easy to sort of just talk down on yourself and sort of beat yourself up, but it's in the end it's like we get to do this.
Speaker 4:You know we get to. We get to talk about the instrument and the repertoire that we love. The best part about it is the hang. I mean it's absolutely the most important and best part is the after-concert hang or the funny stuff that happens in a rehearsal, and it's just totally worth it. So I would assume a lot of your listeners are college-aged or whatever, and maybe some of them are in the middle of a degree and they're just like it's like, stick it out, it's just my mom that listens to this Just your mom.
Speaker 1:I hate to burst your bubble, wow, but it's just so worth it, you know, and it's totally worth chasing, you know.
Speaker 4:Maybe that's all.
Speaker 1:That's great. Mr Jonathan Whitaker, your story has been amazing so far and it continues to be written, and your story has been amazing so far and it continues to be written, and I couldn't be more excited for you in this new chapter. Once you get there, you're going to thrive and I can't wait to come see you there and I'm just so excited for you and this has been really cool and we did it, we made it and you're still awake.
Speaker 4:We're still awake. Let's just stay up. I'm going to let you stay up. I'm going to go home. I live not far from here. I'm going to go lay down.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, yeah, we'll get some sleep and yeah, this has been awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks, man. Oh no, it didn't record any of it. Sebastian.
Speaker 2:Sebastian. Yes sir, I have one word for John Whitaker. What's that Perseverance? Ooh.
Speaker 2:And let me explain myself, you know, please do. He went to school and then he went to more school and he went to more school and then went to more school and then he decided, all right, I'm going to become was a middle school band director and then decided this isn't the path for me and then decided I'm going to go out there and try to be a trombone player. And then decided this isn't the path for me either and got a job teaching, you know, and then kept rising through the ranks and like he continues to do so, which it's hard to keep succeeding as you get older. It doesn't matter how old you are, how young you are, it's like it's. It's hard to keep up that drive to keep succeeding, and I I found that to be kind of my main takeaway from his whole story found that to be kind of my main takeaway from his whole story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's almost things we don't say out loud sometimes. But making such a move like that, you know it's usually people with big job changes You're you know, maybe in your twenties, thirties, maybe your forties, but like that's a that's a big move. And he had been there a long time and I'm sure a lot of people thought he'd be there forever and it wasn't public when we recorded that, it wasn't public knowledge yet, so like I couldn't release it right away, but it meant a lot to him and you could tell he really thought about it and I mean he's one of those people that you can just tell is going to thrive wherever he goes, because he's been successful wherever he's gone and you just see the way students look at him and I mean he's a fantastic trombonist too.
Speaker 1:I got to hear him play and fantastic teacher and yeah, I'm just really excited to see. It's like a new friend, because I really didn't know him that well when I went down there and we just kind of hit it off. Now we're texting all the time. I think I've just replaced you with him as the first guy I text.
Speaker 2:A little southern drawl in the hang. I'm really happy for him Starting a new chapter, especially when you have a family're. You've been used to a whole situation for was it 15 years he was there you listened to it more recently than I did, so I I was.
Speaker 1:I was like half half awake, right?
Speaker 2:I don't think he said 15 years he was at alabama and you know that's a long time to be in one place and then to uproot, I mean it's, it's really difficult. So just that alone, just the uprooting part of it, not to mention a whole change of scenery. Getting a new house, like finding your new grocery store, all this stuff is just like things you don't think about when you're like young and trying to get a job, and it doesn't matter what that job is, you don't think about the logistics. But like when you get older, it's like. It's like you kind of get roots set in the ground and it's it's hard to change habits and you know it's while a lot of it's the same.
Speaker 2:I mean he's going from being a trombone professor to being a trombone professor. He's changing environments in a complete way. You know everything's going to change. So you know I I'm really happy for him and, um, you know he does, he deserves the best, he's a really good guy and, um, anyone who's studied with him just has nothing but the greatest things to say, and that says a lot because, uh, you know it doesn't have to be that way, but people wax poetic about him.
Speaker 1:You know life's a lot about, at least professionally, navigating that fine line right Between finding that dream thing that you just love doing every day and getting that stability that you want. And hopefully, if you can find that sweet spot where you kind of get both, which is it's a pretty rare thing. And you know, sometimes on that path to pursuing that thing you really really, really love, you get tempted by that really comfortable thing or that thing that maybe provides opportunities for new goals you have in life or raising a family or whatever, like I don't know it's. It's that's kind of the fun of it. And so you know, especially when you get really locked into something, it's it's pretty rare to to step out from it and it's also kind of scary, of course it's scary, like change up your whole scene, you know no matter which way you're going, like.
Speaker 2:I mean, obviously a lot of his change is within the same boundaries of what he's been doing, but it's. It's a change nonetheless and there's going to be growing pains. It's not quite the right word, but it's in the right realm of what I'm thinking about Adapting adapting pains, I suppose. But that goes with any change in your life and I'm impressed that he's willing and able to do so far enough in his career that, where most people would not be willing to uproot like that, it's hard be willing to uproot like that it's it's, it's hard.
Speaker 1:It's hard with your voice, like it is right now Dealing with the cold. Could you go to a children's bookstore and just buy about 20 classic books of literature and just record some bedtime stories? Cause man, I would just love to listen to that Nick Schwartz narration as.
Speaker 2:I fall asleep, I think I would run out of voice about 10 pages into a book. I'm right on the edge of losing my voice right now. I've been trying not to speak much.
Speaker 1:Sorry, and I'm like please tell me everything you think. Have you seen those sleep story things where Matthew McConaughey reads you a book and it's like an overly detailed book and you just kind of like can't keep track of it or whatever?
Speaker 2:I haven't seen that one. I've seen the Samuel L Jackson doing that. Uh, go to bleep, go the bleep to sleep. I won't say it Is that that works Wow. Go the sleep.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, cause we don't cuss on this, do we?
Speaker 2:Oh, I feel like this one's been pretty PG, so I'll keep it.
Speaker 1:Has it oh wow yeah, we're ushering in our new audience, our new young audience. Mm-hmm, family-friendly Trombone Retreat Podcast Fund. No more talk about light beers. Just gather around the radio with your cups of hot cocoa and listen to us talk about the slide trombone on my phone.
Speaker 2:You know we don't talk about the slide trombone. That much do we. I mean it's kind of implied.
Speaker 1:It's like stories told through trombonists' eyes. But you know, besides me talking about my mouthpiece every five minutes, I mean we're pretty much we're telling life stories, which is pretty cool because I have some very loyal friends and loyal listeners that do not know anything about the trombone and really like listening, or they know a lot about it now, but cool man. Well, I hope you start feeling better.
Speaker 2:This has been relentless. I've been sick and with allergies since Saturday, and today is Wednesday, so I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired. Let's put it that way. It could be worse. I could play the viola.
Speaker 1:Wow, just brought it back, brought it back to me. Well, I'll keep it on brand for us.
Speaker 2:I'll keep it on brand. It could be worse. I could play the euphonium.
Speaker 1:You know one thing I could talk about, speaking of which and terrible transition, but I actually got to go to Lancelot Duke's memorial service and I first of all absolutely beautiful service, as you would imagine. Matthew Murchison played, who's one of my favorite euphonium players on the planet, one of my favorite musicians on the planet, the Pittsburgh Symphony Brass played, which was gorgeous. Some of his ensembles from Carnegie Mellon played some of his music and there's a lot of great speeches and, you know, in true Lance fashion. You know, first of all, it was packed, this giant church just packed, which was no surprise of how many people love him and how many people traveled to see him, and there's a lot of laughter, a lot of tears and it really hits you and I think Lance would be okay with me observing this I don't think I've ever been in a room with so many euphonium and two players in my life on a scale spectacle on a scale from one to axe, body spray intensity, how bad was the smell?
Speaker 1:oh my god you should have said on a scale of one to pantomime, because that's like the solo they always play oh, oh, I don't even know that.
Speaker 2:Why would I pay attention?
Speaker 1:to that. You know, I don't think they get out much, so the smell is okay.
Speaker 2:You know they weren't working up too much of a sweat, because it's not like they're working. You know what I mean. No, you got them.
Speaker 1:No, it was some of the really sweet people. Got to meet a lot of nice people Uh, david Cutler, who's actually wrote that book, the savvy musician who the book I'm actually teaching out of my my music entrepreneurship class at Cleveland Institute of Music he was there and so I got to meet him and tell him how I'm teaching out his book, which was really cool, and he actually performed and was absolutely beautiful. Um, I think it was a Tom Waits song. It was incredible. Yeah, I mean it was just filled with music and his daughter spoke and just it just destroyed everyone.
Speaker 1:Just such a beautiful, beautiful speech about, like you guys all might know, my father as Lance LaDuke. You know the teacher, the mentor, the friend, and I just want to talk about what lance leduc was like as a father and it was. It was just a really beautiful, beautiful day that you know. We need these moments to kind of snap us back into reality and stop looking at our phones and be grateful. So I'm grateful for him and grateful for the people I've met through him and grateful for all the times he's spent at the trombone Retreat and inspiring our students, and all we can do is work hard to carry on the legacy of what he would teach and what we do, and I think about him every day. I'm teaching at Cleveland Institute, which is I'm teaching the same type of class that he was teaching at Carnegie Mellon, and so I'm yeah, I can only hope to aspire to do any modicum of what he was able to do. So, anyways, so that was my downer, but we made fun of euphonium, so it kind of worked.
Speaker 2:We got a couple of jabs in there, that's all that matters.
Speaker 1:We should. If you're a euphonium player that actually knows we're kidding and listens to all of our episodes, please send us a message, Cause we'd love to talk to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we understand. We understand euphonium as well. You know the grunts and groans and I can play a B flat scale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you enjoyed the podcast, please consider leaving us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Follow us at Trombone Retreat on the Facegrams, instatweets and YouBooks, as well as our website, tromboneretreatcom, where you can join our mailing list. Also, feel free to shoot us an email at tromboneretreat at gmailcom, as we love hearing from you, unless you are a Kenyan prince trying to wire us $8 million On Instagram. Follow Nick at BassTrombone444 and myself at JSVera on the Instagrams.
Speaker 2:And, as always, if you're trying to fry up some eggs and some lard and margarine.
Speaker 1:When you combine lard and margarine. Can you call it Largerin, Largerin.
Speaker 2:Largerin. When you're frying up some eggs and some Largerin make sure to spread it evenly. Give it a flip-a-doodle about two minutes in.
Speaker 1:And serve to taste.
Speaker 2:Retreat yourself.
Speaker 1:That got like too literal of a actual recipe.
Speaker 2:Well, Largerin A metaphor. I don't think Largerin is going to take off at any point in time.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make a t-shirt for you that says Largerin and Enchargerin. Oh, I would wear that shirt I know you would With like a stick picker, drawing of butter, with like a face and like arms and legs.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, maybe with like a pigtail to let you know it's lard.
Speaker 1:But he's like in charge, so he's got like a whistle.
Speaker 2:Or maybe a staff People that have a whistle A staff maybe.
Speaker 1:Oh, like he's Moses, like he's a holy margarine. Or like a drum major Return to yourself.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry, thank you.
