.jpg)
The Trombone Retreat
The Trombone Retreat
A Crossover With Trombone Corner
We spider-man meme with the Trombone Corner Podcast, an episode long overdue. Nick and Sebastian greet John Snell and Noah Gladstone and have an amazing discussion on the evolution of their friendship, careers and joys of mouthpiece making. Noah goes in depth about his varies endeavors including the Brass Ark, Hollywood Scoring, his studio career and love of collecting. This is the episode all you gear heads have been waiting for, enjoy!
Check out our interview on their podcast everywhere you download you podcasts at
Trombone Corner Podcast
Follow Bob Reeves on Instagram @bobreevesbrass
Follow Noah @noahgladstone
Follow the Brass Ark at @thebrassark
The long-awaited limited edition first batch JSV Signature Mouthpieces by Verus are now available for pre-order at Houghton Horns! Use limited time pre-sale offer code JSVPRESALE for 10% off at checkout!
Also introducing special features with Patreon: www.patreon.com/tromboneretreat
Learn more about the Trombone Retreat and upcoming festival here: linktr.ee/tromboneretreat
Hosted by Sebastian Vera - @js.vera (insta) and Nick Schwartz - @basstrombone444 (insta)
Produced and edited by Sebastian Vera
Music: Firehorse: Mvt 1 - Trot by Steven Verhelst performed live by Brian Santero, Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz
Thank you to our season sponsor Houghton Horns: www.houghtonhorns.com
Support the show
Welcome to the Trombone retreat podcast of the third coast Trombone retreat. Today on the podcast, we hang out with a gentleman of the Trombone Corner podcast, john Snell and Noah Gladstone. My name is Sebastian Vera and Nick Schwartz is currently making loud sounds in a pit somewhere, and we'll join us shortly. So we've been wanting to do this podcast actually ever since we started. Noah started his podcast with John Snell, his business partner at Bob Reeves Brass, about the same time we were starting ours, and so I sent him a message and I said hey, man, that's a very random coincidence, but I wish you all the best of luck and we got to do something together sometime and he was definitely game. So we're Spider-Man memeing with the the Trombone Corner. So I'll be honest, I just spent about two hours editing this podcast and then everything crashed and this has never happened to me before and so I had to start all over again and edit another two hours. So my brain is somewhat fried. It's 11 30 at night and we need to post this in about 30 minutes. But this is what I do for you because I love you. So for you, equipment nerds, this is your podcast If you want to take a break from us talking about our feelings and crying and everything and just getting down to brass tacks. This is. This is a really cool episode. Noah is an encyclopedia of history, of mouth pieces and brass instruments, especially trombones, and it was a delightful conversation. I really resonate with him in a lot of ways. He's just a doer and he's created so many things and continues to do things and has an amazing production company called Hollywood Scoring and he's an active studio musician, has the brass arc that many people probably know him from and John Snow is partner, is a trumpet player, but we allowed it. He is a co-owner of Bob Ries brass. So I think you're really gonna enjoy this episode. So it's a crossover podcast. They're also interviewing us on theirs and we're releasing at the same time and we're both actually gonna be a team.
Speaker 1:Ea coming up in a few days Texas Music Educators Association Conference in San Antonio, texas. It's a gigantor music festival with every vendor you can imagine it, so I'll be there at the Houghton's Horns table. Please come say hi. I'll be hanging out with Trombone Timo and if you haven't heard yet, check out the episode we just did with social media Trombone superstar, trombone Timo that we know as Tim mains. For some reason it posted on the feed as coming out January 1st, even though it came out February 1st, so it might not have popped up in your notification. So double check it. It might be further down the list, but it was an awesome episode with really fascinating insights into the world, social media and how he's built his following.
Speaker 1:He'll be there with Brasswich and I'll be releasing my first, very limited batch JSV Tender Trombone Mouthpieces. They just came out and they just arrived at Houghton Horns and I'm clearly biased, but they're absolutely beautiful. I've been working on this for two years and it's been a long process and we really wanted to get this right and they just came out really special and I'm just really excited to share it with everyone. So come by the table. There's not many in the first batch, but they're also available for pre-order for those who can't make it. So it's currently on the Houghton Horns website now and if you order it now, you can get 10% off with the offer code JSV Presale. So you can find all the specs and all the information on the Houghton Horns website.
Speaker 1:But we're trying something different Purity of sound and credible response and articulation. We're searching for the holy grail of rich overtones, ring and sweetness, paired with depth of sound, and we really found it. So go check out Houghton Horns. Come visit us at the table, go visit Bob Reeves table. But yeah, if you want to listen in order, technically they interviewed us first, so feel free if you want to go listen to theirs first and come back, or listen to this and go back. Either way, go check out their podcast. These are amazing guys. I really enjoy this conversation. It was really enlightening and I these are just really great guys. So I need to go. I need to go edit this and fall asleep. So enjoy the podcast. We're here Cool. Well, I mean, this is super fun. I'm really glad we've been talking about doing something like this for a while and I'm glad we somehow navigated these time zones and made it work. Have you guys interviewed people in like eight hours away?
Speaker 3:I mean it's yeah, we just had an Adam Wolf on. Oh, he's amazing. He's in Spain, a real interesting guy, because he just, you know, he walked away from the profession during the pandemic. I didn't know that he's doing full-time software website design now. Wow, sold his sack butts and I mean it's crazy. That guy is so incredible.
Speaker 4:Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5:I know, but he came back to play the.
Speaker 3:Coronation. He came back to play the Coronation. He said he hadn't touched his trombone since the beginning of the pandemic.
Speaker 4:So real interesting podcast. I'll definitely check that episode out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really interesting fellow, lovely, lovely person. Yeah, I'm glad we're finally getting around to this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And now we know it's called a sack buddhist or sack what's here?
Speaker 3:Or sack butter. I mean sack butter gets a little bit weird when you talk, you know yeah what do you? Mean.
Speaker 4:Noah.
Speaker 3:Go on. Sack boner, I don't know. I mean, there's so many weird, like you know.
Speaker 4:Is that a base? Sack butt behind you.
Speaker 3:That is a base sack butt. Behind me, I actually have a sack butt gig tonight, if you can believe it or not. So flex, I know this is one of one of my base sack butts.
Speaker 4:Do you know that? You know, it's like everything about this at like. Every day, someone puts together a sentence in English that may have not been uttered before. Yeah, that's close. Later on today, I was going to my sack butt gig.
Speaker 3:My base sack butt gig tonight. My base sack butt gig. Well, you know they do happen from time to time. It for very strange. It's for the Los Angeles organ guild party holiday. That sounds like a rip warrant time it's going to be, great.
Speaker 3:I don't really know what to expect. I mean, I know a lot of these organists from the early music circles but they were like we really like to have some early brass and we're doing some Pretorius and some Fresco Baldi and we have a Cornetto and three trombones, so should be fun and organ. I would love to hear that.
Speaker 4:You should just walk up and say track or organ sock and see what happens.
Speaker 3:To the digital organs. There are some good digital organs now, but some of the old ones are. They look, but actually the place we're playing has like a really beautiful reconstruction chamber of rogue organ in it, so it's going to be a nice little venue for this organ guild party. Oh man, I don't know if there will be costumes. We won't be wearing costumes, but there could be some costumes you should.
Speaker 4:Coming on a penny farthing official transport of the bass sack, but it's a penny farthing. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I mean, you guys know I'm into instruments so I got into period performance when I was in school and luckily we had a really excellent early music director at USC when I was doing my masters, named Adam Gilbert, who was just like next level reincarnated early musician, and Alexandra Opsall from the Royal Conservatory just moved to LA. Her husband, ian Pritchard, is a continual player and he was doing his doctorate at USC. So all of a sudden we had this world class cornedo player in LA so she was like let's start a brass group. So that's how we kind of started our nonprofit called Tesseray, which is started as a period string and brass group, and then now we've incorporated vocalists and strings and all sorts of things and grown that group over the last 13 years, something like that. Are there recordings that people can look up? There are Our website's up there and we don't do so much stuff with brass anymore, maybe one or two concerts a year, but it's just been great to do a lot of stuff with that.
Speaker 3:And then recently another ensemble's kind of popped up in LA called Music at Transalpina and very interesting. The music director for that one is really into period mass reconstruction. So he goes and he finds all these mass manuscripts and libraries. He's very connected with the Catholic Church and he's got access to these libraries in Europe that only the monks have access to, with a lot of these manuscripts. So he's finding all of these things and we're doing world premieres from like 1600 in the United States, or US premieres of some of these masses which are just unbelievable. Some of them have four or five trombones parts. It's crazy. I didn't know when I picked the trombone how interesting it was going to be, but trombone players were the first legit professional musicians that were getting paid to play in churches and in wedding ceremonies and outdoor events and things like that. And since the instrument is so chromatic and the only one that could play loud and soft at the time, it was everywhere. So who knew how the mighty have fallen?
Speaker 4:I guess Now we have to count 45 minutes of tacit and operas Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly, but I mean, there is nothing more exciting than playing lines in a choir with vocalists where you're an independent line, like you're the playing tenor line, and then there's three other vocalists and to be contributing like that as a chamber musician, like you were saying, sebastian, is like some of the most satisfying playing that I ever get to do.
Speaker 1:Oh man, absolutely, john, I think you're the first. Is this right, nick? Is this the first trumpet player we've ever allowed?
Speaker 3:Well, he owns a soprano trombone and he has been practicing through the Roshu book. So Arbons.
Speaker 5:I've got Arbons. You haven't done the Roshus yet I haven't done the.
Speaker 3:Roshus, I thought you sent me a recording of one at least you did one.
Speaker 5:Well, no well, I worked on. What was it? One, what's the famous one? Two Four.
Speaker 4:I was working through one. Four is a straight banger Four, I think Four.
Speaker 1:I think it was number four Hardware Straight fire.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no, no, I'm on page, I think 75 of the Arbons book.
Speaker 4:I'm just I'm playing through the whole thing and yeah, so.
Speaker 5:I'm an honorary slide user, thanks to Noah In a beautiful minute.
Speaker 3:You should register. I did give John a soprano sack, but actually to noodle around one because at some point we're gonna need. We're gonna need that in a Boccantato or some like that concert, so something like that. We'll need it so.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have a new idea for the hottest new podcast on the planet. Nick and Noah, you can start a sack, but podcast.
Speaker 2:First of all, there's a million title To mine five button. It's amazing.
Speaker 4:It's a working title, but it's a good one. I love it. I like it.
Speaker 1:I like it. There's a big niche audience for that. I'm sure it's gonna be like 10.
Speaker 4:Very, very Would be actually prior wider amount of listeners and you could then you imagine. But if we said one slightly factually incorrect thing about the sack but or the date of a composer or composition, we would get roasted like you would not believe.
Speaker 3:Here's, here's a good sack but story. I can't remember who is telling me this, but a friend of mine was talking to William Shatner about sack but and he was like they were done some project together and it came up and he was like really into the oh, tell me more about the sack. But you know, like really, really into it. So I'm hoping I get to meet Shatner someday that's like a life goal of mine and can explain and I maybe even demonstrate a sack. But for him I think he would be very into that.
Speaker 1:There's some trombone on some Star Trek episodes right, there's a Spock Spock solo plays from the bridge.
Speaker 3:Well, in a mock time there's a big Dick Nash plays the solo when he realizes he's killed Kirk. That's Dick Nash playing the trombone solo on that. Yeah, I asked him about it. He came into the shop one day and I was like hey, dick, I have a question for a nerdy question. You know, do you remember this episode where you play oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, a little glissy thing on there, low bass trombone. He's like. You know, he's like yeah, it was on bass trombone. I'm not really comfortable on bass trombone but I had to do bass trombone because the contractor was like you got one of those right yeah sure you know, it's like one of the most like significant moments in his Star.
Speaker 3:Trek, exactly. So it's Dick Nash, in case you're wondering.
Speaker 1:That is awesome. Okay, well, we'll do a formal introduction, I guess in the introduction to the episode, but of course we're here with Jon Snow and Noah Gladstone, our friends from the trombone corner, and Jon trumpet player, so that's the one with the, with the, you call it.
Speaker 4:They're like buttons yeah, the one, the one that you, they're in your right ear and they're talking to you like that and you got a pushing your tuning slide to play with them. That is that one.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well, yeah well and so and I I'm gonna use, since I'm outnumbered here, number one, and since the honor is so big to that you have allowed me into the trombone retreat.
Speaker 5:I should mention, after playing soprano trombone for about two or three months One, I realized how out of tune I played on the trumpet and no matter how, no matter how tuned in I was to the center of the note and all the things we were taught that you can't just trust the valves being pushed down, when I actually had to trust my ear and use a slide where the center of the note actually was and where the intonation actually was. On behalf of trumpet players around the world, I apologize. You guys were right, we were going sharp through the gig. You know we were raising the pitch higher as we were getting tired or, you know, going in the upper register. But I could go on and I've talked to Noah about this. The things I learned from using a slide, having to use your ear and also having the bell, you know, a foot and a half closer to you Amazing, absolutely amazing. So I'm humbled by the trombone.
Speaker 2:And I'll be a fly on the wall because Noah's much more interesting than I am.
Speaker 1:No, you're a trumpet player. You're going to be telling us what to do by like half a step right, the type A will come out.
Speaker 5:Well, I know you know what? Sorry, I didn't know if I told you guys, I have a Latin gig I have to get to, so I'll see you. Are there a lot of Noah?
Speaker 1:Can you book him some soprano trombone gigs?
Speaker 3:Well, I'm hoping you know. The Moravian Choir unfortunately is no longer a thing here and I, like Jeff Reynolds, had it for a long, long time. That was a big deal they made a great record he directed, that they did yeah. So I mean that's really kind of the only opportunity for soprano trombone.
Speaker 3:I think it does come up on studio calls from time to time as like funny sound effects and the trumpet players are like oh great, I get to pull up my soprano trombone and make noises, but as far as like actually playing music on the instrument, I rarely get to hear that. So I'm looking forward to hearing John as he tones his craft.
Speaker 1:Altar trombone's hard enough. Those positions must be so close together. It is very, very small.
Speaker 3:It is very small.
Speaker 4:I don't know if I've ever encountered like a fully proficient soprano trombonist Jim, that was okay at it, you know, malcolm.
Speaker 3:McNabb actually, Malcolm McNabb actually is very good.
Speaker 4:You know, I think I heard that I have not heard him play it, though I've heard he actually, because I know that's he played on the Moravian trombone. He played on the Moravian trombone. That's where he learned, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, he was really, really terrific, and Ray Burkhart rested peace. But he was also very, very good on the soprano trombone. Wow, but there's not a lot of calls for it, you know, and there's that weird Mozart mass that's got like the fake soprano trombone part. It's not real. It's like I think it was like Calamus or something added as a soprano trombone part. Really, and it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, we don't cuss on this podcast, so saying Calamus, is a whole lot of words.
Speaker 3:It's an off sorry.
Speaker 5:Well, I mean, and there's stories that Chuck Finley and Gary Grant knows that C1 horns would use soprano trombones or slide trumpets for some of the licks they would do back in the day. And then, and there's a story that Chuck Finley used used a Calico soprano trombone for one of the award shows. He just showed up with it and the contractor said you can't use that. And he said I'm using it anyway and still played the heck out of the show, you know just because. But that's a little different than playing in a Moravian group.
Speaker 1:So tell me, tell me how you guys first became friends. Like, how did you first start working together? Right, john go?
Speaker 5:ahead Buddy Noah oh.
Speaker 1:I love this story.
Speaker 5:So we had a friend in common again. Uncle Maddie. Rest in peace, dear friend of ours. It passed. We went to Cal State Northridge together and he kept talking about this Buddy Noah you know, my buddy, I went to high school.
Speaker 3:I went to high school with Uncle Maddie and he wanted to be called Uncle Maddie. By the way, that's like how he introduced himself.
Speaker 5:So yeah, and he's like you know, growing up you know there was that friend that had everything. You know where you're playing a video game, oh, my friend's got that. You know he's got the XBox. Or my friend's got this mouthpiece, or my friend's got this horn. It's my buddy Noah. Like, who is this guy? Like, you know, you think this guy doesn't actually exist, right? And then, sure enough, I think it was like a holiday or party or something.
Speaker 5:It was at your house, noah, I remember we got invited and we came over and Uncle Maddie introduced us hey, john, this is my buddy Noah. And I think you said hi, noah. And he's like I've got a mouthpiece for you. I think that was like the first thing out of your mouth. And he took me to the back room at his house and he started pulling out these like cases, like those old vintage box cases, mouthpiece cases, like a dozen of them, and you're like going through them like a mad scientist. And then you pulled out he's like this is the best piccolo mouthpiece I've ever. You know, everyone wants this. You need this mouthpiece. And I was like I didn't even know I needed a piccolo mouthpiece. And I think, yeah, you said okay, you know this is the price. I'll give you a good deal on it and, by God, I still use that piccolo mouthpiece. It was the best mouthpiece I ever played and that was it. It was love at first sight.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 3:I get around. I guess my reputation precedes me. I've been collecting, obviously because I'm a crazy person, since I was a little kid. So you know I had boxes of New York trumpet and trombone mouthpieces in high school just because I was nuts and eBay was a brand new thing and I was an early person on eBay. Just getting all this gear, Instruments and mouthpieces and mouthpieces were the first thing that I started collecting, because it was obviously they were less expensive than instruments, so I could. It was the gateway into the, into the other things.
Speaker 1:Was the idea to be flipping them and selling them, or did you just enjoy? I just?
Speaker 3:enjoyed the craftsmanship of them and the. You know my teacher was Byron Peebles, who I love dearly. He was like a second father to me and you know he was a big gearhead too. So I would go over to his house for lessons and he would have 30 trombones out on stands you know Mount Vernon's, elkhart, kahn's and mouthpieces everywhere. And this mouthpiece Ronald Chilke made for me when I was in Chicago Symphony and this, that and the other. You know, as a 12 year old coming in to see that you're like oh my God, this is like the coolest stuff. And you know I wrote him one day and I said, or I phoned him up and I said I found a this Mount Vernon 42 on trombone, classified page. What do you think? Oh, you got to get it. You know my mom was like you can't get it, you can't get it, and Byron called her and said you got to get him this trombone. So that was kind of how it started. We would spend lessons, you know, measuring mouthpieces and try this and try this gear and you know, kind of connected there Like that.
Speaker 3:And it just I got the bug really early and started collecting instruments and mouthpieces and learning about the makers and the craftsmanship and the different things that made the instrument work together. Byron was really good friends with George Strucil and Larry Minick, so he had all this Minick stuff and to, just you know, see all of these creations and custom trombones from this guy, larry Minick, who I didn't know who he was, except that everyone talked about him with such respect, you know, and he had he had just passed at that. At that time, you know, it was really really cool to see all these custom bass, trombones and custom bells and stuff that you would never get exposed to as a young child, you know, anywhere else other than being in Los Angeles where it all is. It was pretty cool. So I got into that really early and then, yeah, john came over and we hit it off and then when John started working for for Bob Reeves, obviously I was having my mouthpiece stuffed on and I wanted to start my own mouthpiece line and I did a run of 50 mouthpieces on my own.
Speaker 3:I found a machinist from JPL that was making Mars Rover parts and he was like, yeah, I can make a mouthpiece for you. So like I had him make a mouthpiece and I did 50 and I put them up on the website and they all sold within a day Pretty crazy. It was like, oh okay, there's something here for this. You know, it was a copy of one of my really great Mount Vernons and I did like a outer shape that looked like a delosa mouthpiece, which is a maker from Philadelphia very cool.
Speaker 3:So I approached John and I said, hey, you know, this is really hard to have this guy make them and then someone's got to finish the mouthpieces and buff them and stamp them and plate them and do all that stuff. That's all in-house at Reeves. So I said, hey, what about a collaboration where we could do you know, trump, you guys need Trump own mouthpieces because you're only doing trumpet mouthpieces and this is a good win-win for everybody and we can really spend some time and hone in on the line. And, you know, hand make these. It was really important that they're all handmade for me and, you know, done the old style. So that's kind of how we became business partners and then doing the podcast and all the things. And he lives down the street from me, so we hang out a lot, so it's nice.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's nothing like as cheesy as it sounds, but there's nothing like working with your friends.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's the best.
Speaker 1:It's the best I wouldn't trade for anything.
Speaker 3:I'll let you know when.
Speaker 4:I finally get to do that Wow.
Speaker 2:He, you beat me to that Yep, because he knew about that same thing, get ahead of it.
Speaker 1:That's really awesome and you're in such a unique location where there's so much happening and so many different types of players, so I'm sure you have to cater to so many different types of musicians. And I was reading a lot on your website and there's a really cool video on the Bob Reeves website about how everything started and Bob Reeves sounds like a really awesome person and you love when you see people that just in. You know we're running businesses. Sure, yeah, we're trying to be profitable, we're trying to make money, but it's really refreshing seeing people that especially craftsmen, that you know they if no one was buying them they'd still be in their. You know warehouse building stuff because they just love the art of it the engineer brain. So how did you first start working for Bob John?
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, it's kind of a interesting story because I was in school at the time and I was actually doing computers and web design and stuff for an online casino. It was kind of an illegal gray area but it paid really well. You know, very interesting job. But I was on my lunch breaks trying to, you know, thinking about what I was going to do with my life, because that paid well but it wasn't very fulfilling. And Bob actually Bob's manager at the time called me literally on my lunch break as I was pondering the world, and asked if I wanted to come in for an interview and honestly, I'd never heard of Bob Reeves.
Speaker 5:You know, I was, my dad was a trumpet player and between him and my trumpet teachers they said you play on this and you practice and, you know, never, didn't even know the shop was here and but I was like, hey, at least it's somewhere around trumpet and music and stuff. And they said they would be flexible with, like you know, knowing someone's going to be a performer might have to take time off for tours or gigs. And yeah, that was in 2001. And now it's been, yeah, 22 years, almost 23 years, and I'm a co-owner of the business now.
Speaker 5:Bob left the business to myself and Brett, who does the, he's the runs the shop, part of the shop, and yeah, it's been an amazing run.
Speaker 1:And it and it's start. Did it start primarily as trumpet mouthpieces? Yeah, so.
Speaker 5:Bob. I mean this shop started in 1968 and Bob was a trumpet player and although he did custom work for all the brasses but he knew the trumpet, he could hear the trumpet and he was building trumpets at Benj as well.
Speaker 5:Yeah, right, exactly. And and I asked him years ago why he didn't make horn mouthpieces and trombone mouthpieces and whatnot, and he said, well, I don't, I don't, I can't hear the sound, I don't, I don't know the sound of the trombone. I mean, he could appreciate it, but he knows the sound of the trumpet or knew the sound of the trumpet intimately, which is why the you know collaboration with Noah is perfect, because you know, we know how to build things, but Noah knows the sound of the trombone and he knows how to solve the problems of trombone players. And since we've been doing the mouthpieces, we hired Robert Coomba, from you know based trombonist out here, so someone could speak the language. And then we just hired another trombone, spencer, great tenor trombone player Again, so we can speak the common language now because, when it comes down to it, I'm just a jump trumpet player. So even though I know the models, I can't speak the same language.
Speaker 1:If you had to describe and yeah, you have so many diverse mouthpieces and different types and custom things but if you had to describe the identity of what you're going for, or what a Bob Reeves mouthpiece kind of has, how would you do it?
Speaker 5:Noah, do you want to? I mean for the trombone mouthpieces, for the trombone mouthpieces for sure.
Speaker 3:So I mean, you know I'm a big lover of like a classic trombone sound. I listened to a lot of the old timers and you know vintage gear. I love vintage gear but there's a way to get like a lot of those colors and timbers in a modern mouthpiece that will hold up to like the rigors that we have to play. So you know, when we design the mouthpieces and I have so many in my archive of just great- understatement of the day I'm not going to tell you how many I have, but it's ballpark Mouthpieces.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a lot, a significant number of mouthpieces More than 500?
Speaker 1:Maybe.
Speaker 3:Definitely that means definitely Maybe. Yes. Maybe, A lot. I mean, I have a very patient wife I she is very understanding.
Speaker 1:Do you store them at your house? I have cases.
Speaker 3:I have cases that I have handmade and I have like the Bach case and like the Minut case and the other Bach case and you know Colechio case and the weird case and the all historic case. You know it's nuts, they're semi-organized. Then it's crazy. I mean, lately I'm into like German trombones, like antique German trombones, romantic trombones, because I just think they're fascinating. So I've been like collecting those mouthpieces now trying to get into that stuff. Just there's so many fun trombone toys to get, eventually I guess I'll donate them all to the Smithsonian or something I don't know what.
Speaker 4:I'm going to do with it. What about? What are the what? You should look at that. Have you been to the MIM in Scottsdale?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the MIM is pretty cool.
Speaker 4:That's an amazing place.
Speaker 3:So there's, there's, there's opportunities that they would need to give me a whole wing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's, true At some point.
Speaker 3:You know it's it's kind of crazy, but but you know the mouthpiece design. We were really trying to get this like classic stuff. So you know, for the bass trombone we wanted to do like I don't think anyone really made a really great one and a half G. Like you know a lot of people search, search for mint. You know Mount Vernon one and a half Gs. There's so many variations and I have this really great Bert Harrick one and a half G, that that was made for George Roberts, that I got from George and it's really weird. Like he probably made it with a screwdriver. Who?
Speaker 3:knows what he made it with. It's like really, really wonky. The cup is kind of wonky, it's like kind of step in there, but you put it into horn and you're like, wow, it sounds like George Roberts. It really does. So I was like let's make this, because this is something that's really cool. You can't get it. It's one of a kind you know, and if you want that sound, you kind of need that piece. So that's our Mr Bass Trombone. So, you know, people ask us for like one and a half Gs. We don't necessarily do a one and a half G in a box style, but it's something different, but it is around that size. So you know, that was really cool. And when we were doing the Martin Skipper's mouthpiece, he was playing on one of those and he was like, can we adjust the size of the rim? But use this cup because it's such a unique cup and it's interesting because it's like, you know, it sounds kind of tenorish when the middle upper register, like George, but then when you're in the bottom it's like super, super punchy and fardy, which is great so, but but bold, and especially on a microphone it really picks up. So so that's a really cool piece. Well, like no one makes that, let's let's bring that to market.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, for our orchestra base we wanted to do something a little bit like a one and a quarter size, you know. And then I was talking to Charlie Vernon and he was like I really like these really thin rims, you know, the old school with a giant cup, and you know, but Charlie's mouthpiece is very, very tight in the backboard because he likes a lot of resistance because he plays such large equipment. So you know, we made a piece for Charlie and it turned out that Bob had this cutter from Proviance that was like exactly this profile of Charlie's rim and it worked out perfect. So I was like, okay, that's cool. And then we were doing Jay's mouthpiece. You know Jay had Reynolds Shilke make him this thing. I think it was called like a Gepford cup, which is like a V cup from the Gepford cutter that Shilke had from some mouthpiece from the thirties and you know it's a really, really unique shape. And it turns out that Bob also had a Proviance cutter that was like the same cup V cup. So it was like we had all of these tools that Bob had from inherited or made.
Speaker 3:Over the years we made some tools and were able to really create a really unique line of mouthpieces. That's not really like anything else and they're not necessarily just straight up Bok copies, like I didn't want to do that. You know, we kind of took some box pieces that I like the 4g, the 5g I have really good Mount Vernon examples and tweaked them a bit. The rims are. I picked those rims because they're comfortable, but they're kind of old school. They have a nice bite to them but they're still comfortable. So you know, it's it's my aesthetic in a sense, in consultation with John and Brett. Brett is terrific, he's their machinist and he really I mean understands how to make mouthpieces. He made we did a pandemic project where we made a solid sterling silver trombone mouthpiece Whoa which is crazy.
Speaker 3:Like we. We melted silver and Then made a piece. Because you know, almont was a guy yeah, big Al Was a mouthpiece maker that made mouthpieces for Tommy Dorsey's band and he made sterling silver mouthpieces. So we're like, oh, let's make one of ours, just to see for fun. So how did that sound? It's great. I use it every day. It's my mouthpiece. It's great. You know, it's interesting. The sterling is like 25% denser than brass, so you can make a lightweight mouthpiece that still has weight to it but it responds like a lightweight mouthpiece, so Really fascinating project it's been. It's been fun, it's been a great collaboration.
Speaker 1:I Don't know how you. I mean, if I have, like I get, I get upset if I go to a restaurant in the the menus too big, like I can't make a decision. If I, if I have too many options Customized for my trombone, it breaks my brain and I don't know how you walk out the door and make an equipment decision based on, like, what gig you're doing that day with me Personally.
Speaker 3:You know it's funny. Like it's kind of like my mood. You know I'll be like in the mood for like vintage cons. So I like last week I was playing my 1916 con symphony On a concert, just because I was like this one's great, I'm gonna play it this week. And then the other day I was in a section of box. So I was like, okay, I'll take my 42 today, and it keeps it interesting, it keeps it exciting.
Speaker 3:We just did a divorce act seven a couple weeks ago and I gave everyone in the section to German trombones. So like let's do full German romantic trombones for this. And so you know, I gave everyone a 110 year old trombone and we had a little sectional and worked it out and and for them it was really exciting because like you've played divorce act seven a bunch. But then to add the challenge of having the instrument Makes it a lot more interesting on the job and people appreciate it too. Like the conductor was like, wow, I've never heard this sound and it is definitely a drastically different sound and it's funny.
Speaker 3:It's like I don't know that I could actually play divorce X seven again on a modern trombone. I would be missing kind of the nuance of of a German instrument, because you know, for those they're like really big sack butts. They're, you know, big bells, big bore. But the bells are so thin, they're so responsive, and and the color I mean, nick, you know how it is. You, you have it. You have some German trombones. I have the colors that you can get on a on a German instrument. It's just drastically different than what you know. The American instruments are made to be very, very uniform sound and the German instruments are made to be very colorful sounds.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think at some point I'm gonna try to steal that that that a loiter confuchs, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, exact, exactly like. That's another project where I was like you know, nobody makes this instrument, and For me it was fun to be able to bring a Modern idea on a hundred and ten year old trombone that makes this classic sound, because, like it's just, you know, you can't get that anywhere else and there are people out there that appreciate those kinds of things and you know, these are the things that I look for when I'm kind of bored and looking on the internet for trombone stuff. You know who makes a really cool thing, you know. So I'm like, well, why don't we make it really cool?
Speaker 1:No, I have an idea. I've been. Nick knows I've been wanting to do this for a long time. So you and I, we're gonna fly to Germany. Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna get some people, I can't you would tape us.
Speaker 1:Nick, you can hold the camera, you can come, you can hold the camera, because there's the cool thing about Germany there's so many small makers, so many small makers. We're both. You and I are both fans of Marcus Lüfter, and and that's how I one of the first times I talked to you is when I ordered my Marcus Lüfter alto, which I think it's like serial number four and I'm in love with it and everyone that I let let try. It is like that is the best alto trombone I've ever played and I've always thought it would be really cool.
Speaker 1:It'd be for a very niche audience. But we go to Germany, we visit these makers, we hang out with a local trombonus in town, we try out trombones, we talk about them, we talk with the craftsmen and then we go to the local brewery and and drink beer and Talk with the the trombonus about life there and make like a mini YouTube series. I'd be.
Speaker 3:So I would love to do it. I've been talking with Thomas Schiffkiewicz to my, my dear friend from Austria, who also has his own podcast, you know, so he could translate for us. We've been talking about it for years to do this. In fact, he actually, when I went to visit Marcus when we were working on the babyfuchs project, marcus was like I have a prototype, I'm not gonna send it to you. You need to fly to Germany and come to my shop and we need to drink beers together and you need to finish this trombone with me. And that was part of like the part of like the read, like he's like, this is how I do business and if, if that's okay with you, I'll build this trombone for you.
Speaker 3:So, so I went over to Germany and Tom came and met, met me there and we spent a weekend at Marcus's shop, you know, and his shop is fun because it's literally like next to his house. So he's got his house and then he's got this like little tiny shop and it's tiny but he makes everything there, you know, he's got just enough space for his lathe, and then downstairs he's got his drawbench and then, like, he's got his buffing room off to the side and he's doing all these. You know every piece is made with love and hand. You know handwork from Marcus, like even the screws. He's making the screws. On no way really. So yeah, yeah, every piece, every brace, every, every lever, every bracket every federal.
Speaker 3:He makes, he does, and that's why it takes so long to get an instrument.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's my next question. Where's my look, your contra base from on?
Speaker 3:It's well. You know he's working on the conchers right now. I saw that picture. I got really excited.
Speaker 4:I was hoping. Yeah, yeah, I hope yeah, you are.
Speaker 3:So it's, it's, it's, it's very, very cool to have an instrument from him. You can feel the love and you know. So I love that. I mean he does it all himself.
Speaker 1:He does everything himself. He doesn't have any, he doesn't have any help. He does it all himself. Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he gets the bells, the bells or he gets from burn sander, because burn is like an excellent bell maker and Marcus is like I could do the bells but burn is better than I am, so I just ordered the bells.
Speaker 3:But you know he does his like yearly trip to see burned and they have beers for a week and you know, like that's part of the, that's part of the way that people do business. I think a lot of these instrument makers do business is like you have to have a personal relationship because you know they need to know that they can trust you and that your friends and like real friends and and have that bond of Doing business face-to-face and and Marcus and I we talked on Skype. You know, once every couple months about how's things going in the shop. You know he's given me updates and things like that and we talk about design ideas. So it was a really cool project to do the food and I think the instrument definitely benefited from from all of that. You know I could have said, hey, make this and make this. You know, and he could have done it, but like to have that actual attention from both of us and the love and passion from both of us to make it, I think really helped elevate the instrument.
Speaker 1:You have a pretty long waiting list for it now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we, we did seven, Including the prototype. The prototype lives at Marcus's shop. And then I have one here that you tried, nick, that's number two. And then we, we sold I think there were seven total in the first batch and then he wasn't gonna make anymore. After that we're like, okay, this is because it's a lot of work. Each, each one of those tubes on that, on that, baby Fuchs is seemed and hand roll. I mean everything, including the slide tubes. It's nuts the amount of time that goes into that. So he wasn't really gonna do any more, but there was so much demand and people really like them, so I think he's gonna do one more batch. We'll see Wow.
Speaker 1:Exciting, yeah, just charge like 40,000.
Speaker 3:Nick and I signed you up for 40 thousand won, it sold.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So If you had to have, if you had to name a favorite, I guess peace in the shop what would it be?
Speaker 3:Well, I know John's go ahead, john Favorite like favorite any, any Pete.
Speaker 4:It could be anything. Instrument could be anything. How about instrument?
Speaker 5:Because it's because it's a trombone retreat, then I have to say my, my minix of prano, oh. What's a pretty cool yeah, wow. Yeah yeah, I was gonna say my King Liberty mini trumpet, but no one would appreciate that in this. I know what that instrument is realm.
Speaker 1:I Think some trumpet players might listen to us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's see my, my favorite instrument. I mean I have so many so it's hard to like pick one, but I think my crown jewel I have the con Contra base. That was Roger Bobo's, oh, and then Murray crew had it. It's from 1902 and it's just a stunning instrument. It's a the best B flat contra ever, I think, and it's it's so lightweight and it's really really really cool. So I think that's probably one of my favorite instruments that I have.
Speaker 3:It's really a Fun instrument and there's so many cool pictures of you know, bobo and Jeff Reynolds and all these famous people playing it. You know, george, that George Roberts played it on Jaws, so no kidding, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's a pretty cool instrument with a lot of history. Abe Turchinsky had it and then, you know, it just passed around and Bill Reichenbach owned it for a while and Murray, of course, is the famous video on YouTube I'm playing the bar talk. So I'm really, really fortunate that I have I am the caretaker for that instrument right now and then Some of the other ones that I really really like.
Speaker 3:I'm actually I'm having a trombone restored right now In Switzerland by Aaron Vajna. It's a from 1671. It's an original Holy hell that I was able to pick up last year from a private collector in Geneva and I'm really excited to get that instrument because it's made by a maker named Jakob Schmidt, who actually lived a long time. He lived almost 90 years and he had two sons that also made trumpets and trombones. He was in Nuremberg, so this was made 1671, which is pretty cool because I think it's 12 or 13 years before Johann Sebastian Bach was born, which is crazy.
Speaker 3:And the instrument is surprisingly in excellent shape. There's no cracks in it and the important bits are are intact the bell is there, the slide Stiff brace, the bell braces there and the neck pipe is there. So Aaron's making me a new bow for the back there's no tuning slide, obviously and then he's making a new slide. It's missing the slide, but he said he'd got it mocked up. He wrote me a message a couple days ago and said that he had a sack Buddhist in. That was said. It's the finest trombone.
Speaker 3:He's so I'm really excited to get this and I'm planning on using it. He's gonna make it so that it's modern pitch and that's gonna be really fun to have a 352 year old playable trombone to show around, wow.
Speaker 1:Would you say no other, you're into gear.
Speaker 3:I have a gear problem for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:I almost want to interview your wife now, because I just can't imagine I found this new thing I bid on in Switzerland.
Speaker 3:Oh, she, yeah, I mean. So Doug Yeo wrote me because I was playing a serpent job a couple months ago and I was like, oh, I'd really like to get a Boudouan serpent. And he said, oh well, I'll sell you mine, I'm retiring, so. So then I was like, oh honey, I need to buy Doug's serpent from 1810. You know, because when am I going to get an opportunity? To do that again.
Speaker 3:So you know, now I have that that's a lovely instrument and that was made when Napoleon was the emperor of France. So it's pretty cool just to have these things and when you're playing them you know they're worn in like perfectly, especially on the serpent, like the finger. The finger holes are just like you can feel they're worn in from all of the players that have played it. It's pretty cool. Apparently, this serpent may have been owned by Charles Sacks, who's, of course, adolf Sacks, his father, who made serpents and officalides around that time. This one may have been on his wall as his model, so, which is why it's in good shape and not rotted out.
Speaker 1:So we should make like a movie like the red, violin, the black the black serpent the serpent Doug Doug Yeo's serpent.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the black serpent passed on to generations. I don't know, it's fun. That kind of stuff makes it interesting when you're playing stuff you know.
Speaker 1:I mean I can tell you love it. I mean it's really just wonderful to hear about and you need a museum. I mean, is there a way for people that visit you to just see all the things you have, or is it kind of just more of a private?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, on the website on the Brass Arc I have a museum page and I kind of try to update that, although I'm pretty bad about updating it lately. But I have a lot of these instruments there and like a little write up about each one, some of the history on it, some pictures. I need to do an update and then on Instagram for a while I was doing like I'll post a picture, you know, once a week of an instrument from the collection and kind of tell some history and show some of the neat features of it and, you know, some of the innovative designs, things like that. But you know, I don't know. I mean, if someone really wanted to see something and they made an appointment, I would bring it in to show them. People have wanted to see the con contra before and I've taken that into the shop.
Speaker 1:So I mean you have an appreciation for history and the way sound has evolved over time I'd be really curious to hear your thoughts on. You know, even in the last 20 years, how much trombones have changed, and you know we had that trend in the early what 2000s, late 90s worth. We couldn't get big enough Right, couldn't get dark enough. These tenor trombones are basically base trombones from back then. You know, like keeping that tenor voice and that purity of sound. I feel like some people really appreciate that and I love that so much and of course my mouth be some developing. That's what I'm going for too, that classic sign with modernized feel. But like what? Are your thoughts on how the voice of trombone has changed and would you like it to go back to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question, I think, you know, for me, having to, you know, getting to do all of this period performance stuff and getting to experience some of these pieces as they were as close to originally intended in the ear of the composer, by playing the correct instrument or period accurate instrument, definitely kind of gives you some food for thought. You know, when you approach kind of the modern trombone, first things first, you know obviously these older trombones they just don't play as loud as a modern trombone and that's okay because the sound still gets out there. So I think you know some of us are trying to fool ourselves, I think, and there was that trend to go, you know, huge equipment and really really dark and really dull and that's not really what a trombone is supposed to sound like, at least for me, in my opinion and my kind of sound concepts. You know it really is this kind of sparkly clarity, you know foundation for the orchestra to sit on. And you know, and it's fun when you're playing these period instruments and you play a chorale or something like that or you just ring a chord out and the viola section turns around and looks at you and smiles and you're like, oh, they're not scowling at me, how about that? You know, that's kind of a nice validation, I think, of approaching things and maybe a different mindset, as opposed to being the trombone jock.
Speaker 3:Now, there are certainly times when you have to be a trombone jock, especially in the studio world where you know they want it as loud and disgusting as possible because that's kind of the they're using it more of a sound design thing.
Speaker 3:But you know, in an orchestral setting I think there is some validity to kind of, you know, making things a little bit brighter, making things clear and a good foundation and a pure sound rather than any kind of fuzz sound. And that's hard to get to because a lot of the noise in our heads that we're hearing back you have mouthpiece noise, you have articulation noise, you know you're hearing the sound coming back at you and the bells is in front of you definitely kind of changes your concept of what you actually sound like. You might think you're sounding amazing and then you listen to a recording and you're like, oh, I didn't know I was sounding like that at all. So I think it's really important for people to get friends to listen to themselves and, you know, reassess the equipment, because what the sound that you think you're making is not necessarily always the case Absolutely.
Speaker 1:But you could just always think you sound great and never get the feedback, and then you feel good about yourself.
Speaker 3:Well, there's that too, there's that too. So I mean there's two schools, I guess. So you know, when I'm picking instruments and again, like you were saying, what instrument do you pick? You know, sometimes it's like, well, I'd like to pick an old con, because they kind of feel like a German trombone, and you know a heavy red brass instrument, you know all red brass and that makes a specific sound.
Speaker 3:And then there's other times, you know, I'll have a studio session or a big band session I have to do, and it's like, oh, I'll pick an instrument that's kind of more tailored to that kind of sound concept, you know. So it's a constant evolving process. I'm lucky that I have access to all of this gear because I can kind of experiment and, you know, see all of these different colors and you know what this does and what this does and what this piece of mouthpiece does to this instrument and what this alloy does to this instrument, which also informs me when I'm doing these trombone projects with various makers and approaching kind of the design concepts, because I have it all and I can just reference my actual instrument.
Speaker 5:I'm lucky yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Living museum. You know, living in a museum, it's cool.
Speaker 1:There's so many directions you can go and it's like, yeah, having that. I don't know if I generalized trombone trends of you know the heavier mouthpiece. My only guess was that if sometimes it feels good where a younger person, that or anyone that maybe their embouchure has developed or their endurance and facility on the horn isn't developed, and you put this big heavy mouthpiece in, oh, I can play really loud without my sound breaking up, cool fun. But then you lose articulation, you lose color, you look like, especially in the softs, totally there's something like getting that sparkle and just like sighing through the trombone and just sparkles and projects to the back of the hall and not this dull sound and I. That's just so fun, I don't know. I wish more people would.
Speaker 3:Well, I think some of it is chamber music too, because when you're in that setting you have to listen and you can't play necessarily overbalance from anybody else. So you know it opens your mind to like, oh, there's other things in the world than just, you know, raw meat through your nose from on playing all the time.
Speaker 5:I have a good question for you guys. I'm going to use that line. I feel like sorry to interrupt some pressure. I'm going to use that. Oh no, you're good.
Speaker 1:Well, something I've been talking about with people lately, I think in general, if you compare trumpet players to a trombone player, in general trombone players want to play one mouthpiece all the time, especially on a gig. And you look over and trumpet players will have like a different mouthpiece per movement and I think you know sometimes we're afraid of the change of feel and everything. But do you think trombone players could do that more often, more tailored things to the piece of the line?
Speaker 3:You know, I actually we just talked about this with Brett Baker and it's funny because you know, there is a stigma, like if you bring a bunch of mouthpieces and you're changing mouthpieces mid gig, everyone's kind of looking at you like, oh, you know, are you having chop issues? Or like you know what's going on over there? And there is definitely like some judgment about that, like you have to just play the same mouthpiece. I don't know that that's necessarily the case and you know, especially when I'm playing certain repertoire, I have various historic mouthpieces that I use, depending on the rep that I'm using Um, flat rims, sharp throats, et cetera, et cetera, to get a certain kind of articulation or color that's appropriate for the piece that I'm performing. So why not, I think, if it makes the job easier and it makes the sound that you're after? What's wrong with changing mouthpieces mid gig? Like John said, we'll trumpet player come back when you're changing mid phrase, you know that was a good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that one, that's true. It's true.
Speaker 5:And then, when it comes down to it, I mean the mouthpiece is a tool. You know, it's all a tool the horn, the mouthpiece, the mute, whatever it is. And uh, especially as modern playing gets more demanding or the job gets more demanding, you know, I mean, if you're showing up and playing, you know Haydn or Mozart, fine, yeah, I'm sure one mouthpiece will do it. But you know, if you're playing up at a, you know the Hollywood Bowl, and you've got five or six different styles, yeah, if you can get it all done with one mouthpiece, great. But that's also, like, you know, getting out on the golf course with a putter. You know like, yeah, can I hit the ball 300 yards with a putter? Yeah, for enough time and enough practice. But why not use this tool that's designed to do this specific job?
Speaker 3:So, I think that also translates to, you know, using alto trombone when alto trombone is appropriate, using a small tenor, using a smaller bass trombone. You know, I even have like like a modern F bass trombone straight.
Speaker 3:F bass trombone that I had for some repertoire or it's like you know, this is what they would have used originally, but I can't pull out my sack but to do it. But I still want to play it on an F trombone and, you know, with modern trombones in the section, and I think that was really fun. Again, it keeps it interesting and it's like a little bit closer. I mean, an F trombone sounds different than a flat bass trombone, so it's kind of fun. There's repertoire for that and it's like why not?
Speaker 3:You know makes it interesting.
Speaker 1:Noah, I'm still looking for the perfect alto trombone mouthpiece. Okay, for this horn. Can you please help?
Speaker 3:We'll send something your way.
Speaker 1:We'll talk, we'll talk. I will.
Speaker 4:I will.
Speaker 3:I will strip you through your alto trombone mouthpiece, journey oh please.
Speaker 1:Yes, I did want to ask a little. I mean, we kind of just follow where we're going. It was just so interesting to talk about and, noah, you also have such a big contracting career and I could, could you just briefly talk about how you got into all that and basically what? What you do? A lot of trombones. Know you from the brass? Arc but I don't know if it's possible to Sure.
Speaker 3:I'll kind of give a quick, a quick overview. So you know I was at, I was at USC. I did my undergrad at USC out in Los Angeles with Terry Cravens I had studied with with Byron Peebles from the LA, phil and Ralph Sauer, so pretty good pedigree. You know it was like, okay, well, I want to play in orchestras and I want to win an orchestra job and do all the things that you do when you're kind of on that mindset. And USC is, you know, in LA and there's a big film scoring component to the school and the film school there they have a bunch of film composers. So one night randomly, I was at a house party at USC and made kind of small talk with the skyline next to me. He was in the film scoring program and needed some players for a small project he was doing for a student project. I know I can do that for you. So I always been like a good connector of people through high school and college. I just knew a lot of people, was playing a lot of gigs and knew a lot of musicians in the community and you know, people generally seemed to like me, which is nice, and I got 40 of my colleagues to come and do this session. And his roommate orchestrated the project and called me the next day and said hey, I really like your contracting style. Would you be able to contract this movie for my friend who's doing a project with the actress from Buffy the vampire slayer? Oh, okay, sure it's going to be Union, and can you budget all that stuff out and just handle all the bookings and everything? So I said, sure, I can do that, no problem, I know what to do. And I lied and didn't, but figured it out. You know, got some help from the Union and kind of did my budget and I booked a studio called oh Henry and an engineer named Bobby Fernandez who was pretty famous. And we did this session. It was two days, doubles and my budget came like right on the dollar. It was a great on spot. So I was like, hey, I'm pretty good at this. You know, called the breaks and you know everyone was like, yeah, hey, you did pretty good at this. So I was like, okay, well, me, you know, maybe I should kind of do this on the side, who knows? I mean, you know, I'll kind of study the union rules and learn more about contracting and stuff, because it's very complicated. There's a lot of gotchas. There's, you know, dozens of contracts you have to memorize and recording stuff is is very, very complicated. Especially the recording contracts are extremely 200 pages long, with you know lots of gotchas. So you know, jump forward.
Speaker 3:I'm playing in a brass quintet with a friend of mine named Greg Curtis and he was engineering a lot of our projects at USC and his father-in-law wanted to invest in him building a recording studio in LA. So he asked me if I wanted the project, managed the project. So we built a scoring stage called the bridge recording in Glendale. From the ground up it was an empty warehouse. He purchased the building and we built the whole project over three years. I project managed the whole thing the design, in collaboration with the Acousticians and the contractors that built it, and learned a lot about studio construction, mistakes and all. We made a lot of mistakes. We did a lot of good things at that studio and learned a lot about studio craft, studio craft.
Speaker 3:As I was coming out of that project he was like do you want to stay on and be the studio manager or do you want to continue to contract and play trombone? Because you can't do both. And I said, well, I can't just be a studio manager, so I'm going to kind of double down on my trombone playing. At this point I was like, well, I don't know that I really want to sit in an orchestra job. I kind of like doing all of these different things. So I had been working at Horn guys for years, during this whole period as well, kind of on my off days and helping out Steve Ferguson build his business. So I said, well, why don't I start my own trombone shop on the side? And you know, I'll try to make a go of playing freelance and being a contractor.
Speaker 3:And I kind of fell into it. I started getting some local orchestras to be personal manager for and my friends Mike Barry who, and Michael Patty from USC, called me up and said hey, we're starting this company called Cine samples. Would you help us contract some sample libraries union? We want to do a union which is very complicated and there was lots of drama on all that and I won't really go into that, but there was lots of drama. But we did it and we did these amazing Cine Brass which people still use to this day. It's kind of ubiquitous and film scoring mock-up world and it was a big success and they made a lot of money and they said, hey, we'd like to invest in another business with you. What are you interested in? I said, well, I'd really like to do a music production company. So we started our company, hollywood scoring in 2011 and I always tell people fortune favors the bold. If you're scared of failing and not taking any risks, then you're never rewarded for anything. So we I sold a bunch of trombones and we raised a lot of money and we basically put in over $100,000 into the business.
Speaker 3:We made a big video at the time. A lot of orchestras were going to Prague or a lot of composers were going to Prague to record orchestras. It was like a. It was really in, prague was really in. They've been doing a lot of non-union stuff in Seattle. Prague was really really big. So people were doing these early remote sessions to Prague. So I was like let's make a video about recording the United States, recording LA with the best studio players in the world. Blah, blah, blah. You know, rally around the flag. Let's make a video and send it out to all the 10,000 composers on your composing mailing list for Cine samples.
Speaker 3:So we made this really polished video at Sony scoring stage. We spent all this money and we sent out the video and I woke up the next morning and I had 500 emails in my inbox and the first one was from a company called Riot Games which is doing League of Legends, and they said we want to take a meeting with you. So we went down the next day and had a meeting and they said you know, we have no music department. We're really looking to get into original composition, original scoring, can you help us with this? And we became their in-house music department and we still are, to this day, beautiful.
Speaker 3:So through that, you know, and kind of getting skin in the game and you know treating people well, I really wanted to be kind of an advocate, having sat on all sides of the glass as a studio owner, as a contractor, as a trombonist, as just a human being, you know, approaching it and being an advocate for players but also an advocate for management.
Speaker 3:And I think that's one of the things that has a lot of disconnect and there's a lot of turmoil between musicians and management.
Speaker 3:And this is for a lot of live orchestras as well, where, you know, there's just a general lack of communication and understanding of what each group does and what their interests are and you know what their motivations are and I think when I approach my contracting, I approach that from that aspect.
Speaker 3:You know I am first and foremost a trombone player and I'm happy to sit and do a $50 church job still to this day to keep myself grounded and to work with my colleagues and be seen, you know, on par with my colleagues, and then I will absolutely get up and go to bat when someone's being treated wrong and advocate for people to make the most money for their careers, to facilitate a lifestyle and commitment to the art and the craft as possible. So that's kind of how I got into it. We built our own scoring stage in 2018. I just expanded. So I have two large scoring rooms in Atwater Village and downtown LA and you know I put my money where my mouth is. I invest everything that we get in the business if it's brass, arc or Hollywood scoring and I put it all into the business to bring, you know, some kind of stability and joy to people and advocate for people any chance that I can.
Speaker 4:Wow, fascinating, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it, you're doing it. You're doing all the things.
Speaker 3:Someone's got to do it, you know. I mean, musicians are notoriously bad for managing business, like you said. You know yes we're not taught how to do it and I realized early on that I was good at this and can be a good leader for people and lead by example, which is rare.
Speaker 1:So much is like understanding your personal strengths and accepting like hey, I actually am pretty good at this, why don't you apply Right?
Speaker 3:And it would be a shame if I didn't. I think so, you know, and it's fine and I'm really glad I can do it. It makes me very happy when I send out, you know, a full payroll for all my colleagues and friends that deserve it. You know spent their whole lives learning how to play an instrument and it gives me really really great pride to be able to facilitate so that I know that they're able to send their kids to college or pay their mortgage or buy groceries that week or buy a new instrument. You know brings me great joy, so that's one of the motivations that makes me keep me working really, really hard.
Speaker 1:I love that and I loved how you talked about understanding both sides. You know it's so easy to what I call othering other people. You know, just assuming everything they want is the opposite of what you want and assuming that they don't have needs to and that they're just out to get you. You know there's so much mutual ground, but I think that that's a good transition to it. We always kind of have a rapid fire questions to close out and something I wanted to ask both of you what's, what's the most fun part of your job? If you had to pick one thing the most fun part of your job and the most challenging part of the work you do.
Speaker 5:John, how about you first? Most fun, most challenging, I think for us most fun is the travel. You know, as much as I love the shop, like getting out on the road, getting in front of people, I mean we used to do when I first started here. We do one or two conventions a year and now we do Japan. Every year we do probably do four or five conventions in store events, you know, and although we're great at consulting over email or over phone, when you're in front of you know a person and they're trying mouthpieces or something like that. You know you're hanging out at the pub or whatever. You know, it's those kind of connections that at the end of the day it's just the most fulfilling. The hardest part man I don't know Probably dealing with the IRS right.
Speaker 5:You know, you just don't, just just don't answer their emails Exactly, yeah, yeah, I mean I think it's anything about running a business, you know. I think you guys talked about, you know, setting up your trombone retreat. You know it's just running around, maybe not even having the confidence to think that you have the skill set, you know, so you self sabotage or go through all of those negative thoughts that you know don't do anyone good. So it's just having that perseverance to know, hey, I'm in the arena, I can learn and, you know, fake it till you make it. So that's probably the most difficult part.
Speaker 1:That's good. How about you, Noah?
Speaker 3:Well, I think the most fun I mean I get to travel around and do lots of things, so that's lots of fun and produce events and get to be really creative, you know, outside of like presenting a show, that's really fun. But for me, like the most joy I get actually is, you know, when you're on the job and you're making music live and it's happening and you get to hear a colleague play a really great solo or you know just something really great and you get to look across and, like you know I'm part of this like to me that's really really fun, like just that communication and dialogue between your colleagues and then the hang afterwards and you get to congratulate people and you did a really great job. The least fun, I think, is from being a personal manager. You know, there's always like conflicts that come up and dealing with issues with people that maybe aren't getting along so well, or there's an issue where you have, you know, players that are maybe not necessarily cutting or pulling their weight and you have to address those things and that's always really uncomfortable and sad because, like I said, you, if you're an empathetic person and you understand why we all got into music in the first place.
Speaker 3:To have to deal with those kinds of things is really awful, and it does come up as a personal manager. So those are the things that I don't look forward to and they're really really hard and difficult conversations to have sometimes, and but it is part of the job. Letting someone go firing someone from a job or, you know, if it's a freelance job, when they're like, hey, how come you didn't call me back for that? That's always an awkward conversation and there's. You know, all I usually tell people, which is the truth, is, you know, sometimes there are things that's happening behind the scenes that maybe it's not your playing or maybe it's not, you know, has nothing to do with you. It's just the way that the job is working out and but obviously, like it's my name on it. So, like you know, you kind of have an awkward situation with people that you know. Maybe friendships are sometimes damaged from that. So I'd like to hope not, but that is the not fun part of being a personal manager.
Speaker 1:It's like literally in the title. It really is.
Speaker 3:And it's, you know, we've all had to deal with it and we all have, you know, know, those kinds of situations and it's just really a tough one.
Speaker 1:What would you say the best advice you would give to a young player that is just starting out, and how they communicate with a person.
Speaker 3:Good question. Being overly pushy is not great, but you do want to be recognized. But I always tell people the best recommendations I get are from your colleagues. So it's always an audition. Every job is an audition. In that sense, your playing is half of it, but your communication and your personal skill set and your social skill set is nearly as important, if not more important, than how well you play. A lot of this stuff is not necessarily the most difficult things possible, and I do, as a player, like to pick people for certain jobs that I know that they're going to excel at, because I know they're playing and I know they're going to do a good job. I would never try to put someone in a situation that I know they're going to not do well, and I think that's one of the nice things about having a contractor that also is a player is you tend to be able to protect people better. But work ethic comes down to it. I think a lot and just say knowing how to behave in a professional setting and being doing your best work. The cream always rises to the top.
Speaker 3:People will pass along your name and I always, you know, someone will say, hey, here's my resume, I'm new in town. Okay, send me some examples of your playing Great. I usually won't call them right away until someone mentions their name. Oh, hey, I played a gig with so-and-so and they were you know. Oh, how was that? You know it was great. Great, you're on the list. That's kind of how it works and that's the best way to have it kind of happen organically, rather than you know. You shouldn't wait around for the phone to call, but starting your own ensembles, getting out there, you know, kind of taking control of your own destiny, in a sense of working on yourself and your own artistry, will ultimately get you recognized faster than just sending a resume and say, hey, I'm available for work.
Speaker 5:You know I got great advice once about thinking. You know you always think about well, what is this gig pay? Or you know how many hours is it, things like that. But like switching it around and thinking about, like, what value can I provide?
Speaker 5:You know, if you're auditioning for an orchestra, you know what value am I bringing to the orchestra, what skill set, what am I providing to the, you know, to the section? Or if it's a professor position, what value am I bringing to the school, to my students? Or if it's just a freelance gig and it's, and then it combines all of those elements and it's because it's not just the playing skills. But you know, are you arranging, can you provide charts? Are you a good person, are you a fun hang? You know those are all, that's all value that you're bringing to the performance. And instead of I mean it is important to know what you're getting paid, you know, and what you're getting in return. But you know, I feel like the more you give, then the more that's going to come back, if you don't even have to think about that part, because if you're providing that much value, stuff will come your way.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. That's beautiful advice, and that's the same for any type of human relationship in this world. Giving more, not expecting things to just be given to you that's a beautiful thing, John. Advice to your 18 year old self.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I mean, I think it comes to mindset, you know, I mean I was always introverted.
Speaker 5:I was always, you know, nervous to jump into the ring, you know, and I'm very fortunate that I am where I am now Despite all of that.
Speaker 5:But thinking about what I could have done had I not had self doubt, that I not had, you know, that voice in my head that said, you know, maybe you shouldn't apply there, yeah, maybe you shouldn't call this person and ask for a lesson.
Speaker 5:You know, and my biggest, one of my biggest regrets, at least in the trumpet world you on Racy, you know one of the nicest human beings in the world, amazing studio trumpet player, and he lived literally down the street from me and at any point I could have called him and taken a lesson, you know, but I didn't. I didn't even have, you know, the wherewithal to do that because I would talk myself out of it before I'd even pick up the phone, and then he passes away and now I have no chance to, you know, have a lesson, and he's. There's countless stories of trumpet players that took a lesson from him and changed their playing, changed their life, changed their career trajectory, things like that. So if I go back to my 18 year old self, I'd, you know, kick myself in the seat and say, look, just do it. Who cares? No?
Speaker 3:I think I would give myself advice to travel more. I travel a lot now as an older person an elderly person.
Speaker 3:But I got your cane Exactly. I think you know I would have. If I could do it again, I would go and travel and meet more musicians and get around a little bit more outside of Los Angeles. It was great to grow up here and go to school here, but I think I missed out on, you know, doing festivals and traveling around the world because I was so focused on working in town and I think I missed out on a lot of that stuff. I think you meet a lot of people. You meet a lot a lot of great music together and see the world as a younger person. I think that gives you some perspective. Certainly now that I get to travel for work, I try to do all of those things now and kind of take in the culture. I definitely, you know you don't really realize that it's affecting your musicianship, but I think a lot of that does actually affect your musicianship. Having perspective of how big and special the world is, kind of bringing those experiences to your own art is important.
Speaker 4:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I have a spare bedroom I got to come yeah when we got to do our trip, our YouTube trip, around Germany, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm not joking, because I need to go there soon, so that makes me think about my other. They're filming so many things in Pittsburgh now. So many movies because it's like you know, it's a lot cheaper here, I think, and they get a lot of tax breaks in it. It looks very iconic. There needs to. You need to come visit and get scoring and more live recordings happening here. That'd be awesome.
Speaker 3:But you know, again high tide brings raises all shifts right.
Speaker 3:So, as far as the scoring world goes like, it's really interesting to see a lot of, you know, back then there wasn't a lot of places to do it and it's kind of you know just kind of expanded around the globe. It's a global marketplace. You have, you know, budapest and Prague and Iceland and Nashville and Seattle and LA and New York and all these places. It's interesting. It's very expensive to do scoring the right way, but you need to find people that know how to do the workflow. That's really what it comes down to and setting up the shop the correct way, and that's a lot of it. And part of that is one of the reasons why LA is so good is the infrastructure here, and I have to give a shout out to my own crew at my studio.
Speaker 3:But all the crews around in all the studios they've been doing, you know, working in that filming environment for some of them 40, 50 years, and that's really where the experience comes in on the scoring stage and you can see in that setup and stuff and the, you know, engineering side of it. That's really really important. That's one of the areas that I think a lot of the scoring places around the world suffer because they don't. You know, not all of them. Some of them have good people, but some of them don't really know the workflow and that ends up slowing down and diminishing the product. So if there's anyone in Pittsburgh that has some scoring experience, you can certainly get that going as well.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that'd be fun. Quick one. There's a billboard that the entire world can see and you can write anything you want on it. What would it say? Hmm.
Speaker 3:This is a PG podcast right now.
Speaker 1:No, it's definitely not PG.
Speaker 3:Gosh, that's a weird question, John. What do you got? Whoa Practice? I think I would just put a giant picture of the con controversy, yeah, and all its epic glory, and just be like and everyone will drive by you like, what the hell is that?
Speaker 1:Put brass art at the bottom.
Speaker 3:Exactly Nothing else, just the con controversy. It's so epic it deserves its own billboard.
Speaker 5:Well, I have an idea for your birthday now. Oh good, For the person who has everything, the most difficult person to shop for. Can you send me a picture of that trombone Because I have to talk to my ad agency?
Speaker 1:Nick, do you want to do your last?
Speaker 4:question you know, with this particular group of people. I think that the question about advice to your 18-year-old self covers the same premise, so I think that we would be double covered if I asked it again. Cool.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to ask you guys a question, because we didn't ask you on our podcast about the gear that you play, and since we've talked about a lot of the gear that I've played, so I'm going to flip this back on you guys and tell us about the trombones that you own and you play.
Speaker 1:You know I've played, I've been an Edward's artist for a very long time, and so I already talked about my Marcus Lyft Droughto, which I love very much, and I thank you so much for bringing the ease to get that in America. I think he's doing brilliant things. I have a King 2B from I think it's like a 1969 King 2B that I love. One thing I kind of actually wanted to talk to you about it I have a, I think early 70s Bach 36, it's not Mount Vernon but it's you know, they're all, they're all handmade. You know, like you know, I went and tried like 15 of them and I picked this one up and everyone was instantly, you know, and I think we've lost the art of the medium horn.
Speaker 1:And I think it serves such a function, like playing a medium board like a straight horn, especially with with piano and all of our solo repertoire, is so much more fun to play, so much easier. You get so much color, you don't have to worry about projecting, but I mean they can, they can be plenty loud playing in it.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's just a different cone of projection, you know, and it's it's playing in a British style brass band. It really blends well and cuts well with trumpet players. So I love that horn. Is that? I'm like, looking at all my instruments now, it's like nothing compared to what Noah has. Yeah, that's why I've been playing and I have, you know, found some old trumpets at garage sales that I need to donate or something. Donate them to Noah. And I have. I have a theremin, oh God, no, I don't deal, I don't deal with trumpet players.
Speaker 1:I have a theremin for some reason. And I have yeah, I think that covers most things. Nick, Nick.
Speaker 4:Nick, I do a lot of fun toys. My main instrument is a M&W based Ramon. Do you, do you want to know all the details, or I want all?
Speaker 3:the details.
Speaker 5:Man, I want to know, give me the specs, tuning in slide or any of that stuff that you guys talk about.
Speaker 4:Different valves and rotors. It's not tuning in slide. It's got a. It's got a red brass bell. I both. I have a uncut one, I have a cut one. I mainly use the cut one and I have. Yours is cut right, noah.
Speaker 5:Mine. What Is yours cut Mine's?
Speaker 3:cut Mine's cut. Yeah, okay, yeah, sorry, that took a second to process, thanks, I got there right away.
Speaker 5:You guys have to be on your toes. You let a trumpet player in here. You guys have to stay on your toes. That's what we're for. We can't play in tune, but we can keep you guys.
Speaker 4:I have a really unique instrument. It was a. It's a Raph trombone with green hoe valves. He only made one of the. He made a couple of them in tenor tremone, but he only made one. He just made a prototype. And then Gary Greenhoe found out what he was doing with them, because he bought the valve sections from Gary and then just threw everything away and kept the valve and made his own wrap.
Speaker 5:And Gary really didn't like that.
Speaker 4:But I have that horn. That's a great horn. That's what I won my edition at ballet with. I have my Marcus Loichter that I bought from you. It's actually in the shop right now. I'm supposed to get it just for like cleaning. I'm supposed to get it back like tomorrow. Plus, I have I have a Chinese sack but a Wessex. I have a salvation army G based Ramon, and I have heavy, heavy use the G base from on our jobs.
Speaker 4:That was an impulse buy and I have can still contra base Ramon and I have a Wessex C off a Clyde Nice yeah, that's actually a very good instrument, especially for the price. I was very surprised by it.
Speaker 3:You know, off a Clyde's get a bad reputation, but they're actually quite lovely.
Speaker 4:Well, the way I play it, it deserves its reputation.
Speaker 3:Well, the fingerings just doesn't make any sense at all. When you try to describe someone.
Speaker 4:It's like, it's like it's.
Speaker 3:It's random memorization, you know it's random as no, white was popular with a lot of amateurs, but I can assume it's a good thing. Yeah, but it is. It is cool. I mean there are some amazing players out there that play Patrick B Bear or anything in this. In France, Patrick is yeah, he's, he's incredible Great serpent player too.
Speaker 4:He's absolutely.
Speaker 1:He must give all the girls unbelievable.
Speaker 4:Is that my whole collection? That might be my whole collection. No euphoniums, no, no tubas. The euph, the euphonium, oh the well. The euphonium is like Doing a really cool party trick. It's like, really, it's like, oh, that's, that's fun and interesting, but it's like, come on, it's euphonium. Sorry, I have a deep hate of euphonium, but I get to see our subscribers going down and down well if they've ever all those euphonium players.
Speaker 1:It it's kind of it's kind of our inside joke on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Anytime euphonium comes up, we just trash it for no reason, even though we have well, the thing that always made me laugh about euphonium is like you'll have the hardest parts ever. I can't hear him and no one hears them. Yeah, you can't hear her again. As long as you play your solos, everyone's like, wow, it's so beautiful instrument. You just got to play your solos and just noodle your way through all the other stuff.
Speaker 4:Yep, tuba. I love the tuba I don't want well, I do want to own a tuba. My wife would kill me, though you know she's already mad about the amount of stuff I have in our New York City apartment. I'm thinking about like putting up, like People who use this in garages and stuff to take advantage of vertical spaces without installing actual shelving. You can get like those. It's like a Great that you can Rot, raise up and down on a pulley system and so it kind of lives up on the ceiling and it used kind of tie Tie the string to the wall.
Speaker 4:I'm thinking about doing that for my my cases and just using the verticals.
Speaker 3:I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 5:So, rob's no, wheels are turning, rob. No, I know so.
Speaker 3:Rob Stewart actually came into my shop and we first moved into our shop Rob Stewart.
Speaker 3:I legendary brass repair man. You guys know who he is, so you know he was like hey, I'm gonna come over to your shop. I got some parts I'm gonna drop off for you guys donate donation to your new business. And he walked into. My shop is tiny, it's 400 square feet and I shared that with Brad, so he's got his half and I have mine, so I have all of my horns and roughly about 200 square feet and he walks. He's like pretty small. He's like a lot of real estate on the roof so I have a lot of stuff like hanging in the shop. It's it's pretty. We maximize the space.
Speaker 4:So we gotta do.
Speaker 3:I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:I'm imagining some amazing futuristic system where you just walk in and hit a button.
Speaker 3:It's like the dry cleaners they just come around on the.
Speaker 4:What do they call those? The tubes at the bank, you know. The new matter to have a new matter tube. You put like. You put like a euphonium in there, you just toss that actually Just shoot.
Speaker 5:see you, funny, I'm up the next shop.
Speaker 3:No, we're gonna do that.
Speaker 5:I love this idea yeah.
Speaker 3:I love this idea.
Speaker 5:I like both the dry cleaner and the new attic tubes.
Speaker 3:We'll do both. We get good Instagram. I was really good engagement on that, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:I was really thinking people were gonna start just 3d printing all their mouthpieces and just hitting the button and Getting the specs. But it's. I think we're a ways away from that you know, it's pretty amazing what they could do a 3d printing.
Speaker 3:I was at a JPL does like a open house once a year and they have this amazing machine shop there. You're in a machine stuff and in LA and they happen to be doing a JPL open house you should go. But they have like the most Amazing machine shop but they have a whole section now dedicated to 3d printing and metal and the stuff that they were showing us, these pieces that they made Unbelievable technology. Who knows what's gonna come with all that, but pretty amazing.
Speaker 4:I was gonna say I saw a 3d printed bassoon mute yesterday. I thought that was pretty cool. No, I'm assuming. Excuse me, I'm soon a low note like an extension.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool, it's amazing stuff that's. Yeah, it's just gonna keep getting better than other sentence that no one's ever seen.
Speaker 4:Let's 3d printing euphonium.
Speaker 1:Only one. You thought he made it Well, truly, truly awesome. We got to do this again.
Speaker 5:Yeah, this is fun. We can do an annual like holiday episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah, breakfast tacos and bagels breakfast tacos. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh. And we got a if we're, if we're ever in the in the same place again. At the same time, we got a fair way to record live Well.
Speaker 4:For sure, it's an opportunity would be at like a ITF or something, but we can figure that out, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you won't be a team. Yeah, Noah, will you TBD?
Speaker 3:Kind of checking schedules, but John wants me to come friend, it twists his arm. He's. He's trying to put the Put the screws down on me to come for that one, but we'll see.
Speaker 5:I have a room with a pool table. I didn't tell you guys that. Yeah, oh well, that's wings to deal it all.
Speaker 3:Noah, all right, all right, all right, sounds good.
Speaker 5:Party in my right.
Speaker 3:All right, sounds like a plan.
Speaker 5:Well, let's do this again. Thanks guys. Yeah, absolute honor to be on here. Thank you, guys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely Thanks, this was fun.
